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American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke (Read 125392 times)

Joe McCarthy God Member Offline Tiocfaidh ár lá Posts: 526 Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew Joined: Mar 25^th, 2008 Gender:	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #165 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 7:29pm	Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Feb 26^th, 2016 at 7:14pm: Wandersmann wrote on Feb 26^th, 2016 at 6:39pm: I've been taught my entire life that, "rather 1,000 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison". You are referring to Blackstone's Formulation: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." Sir William Blackstone 1765 this is why our Constitution is written the way it is; and why it is the supreme law of the land, and a beacon of fairness and equity when applied correctly.

	Joe
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #166 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 7:30pm	Print Post
	You are adroit at avoiding questions Dan.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #167 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 7:53pm	Print Post
	Ark, I joined the APA to "serve the cause of truth with integrity, objectivity and fairness to all persons." For decades, that had been the prime goal of the American Polygraph Association. But, the evidenced-based alleged scientists who control the APA narrative decided just last year to flush that noble goal down the toilet. Clearly, their values are not my values.


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Joe McCarthy God Member Offline Tiocfaidh ár lá Posts: 526 Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew Joined: Mar 25^th, 2008 Gender:	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #168 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:09pm	Print Post
	Ex Member wrote on Feb 26^th, 2016 at 7:30pm: You are adroit at avoiding questions Dan. He is picky about what questions he answers

	Joe
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #169 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:15pm	Print Post
	Again, I respect your valor and dedication to your cause. But, that didn't answer my question. I am not trying to paint you into a corner, I'm just trying to figure you out. It's perplexing that you want to be president of an organization that advocates something you are totally against and don't believe in. It's like Al Sharpton driving around with a Trump bumper sticker on his Lincoln Town Car.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #170 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:16pm	Print Post
	I must have missed something. Hit me with your question again.


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Joe McCarthy God Member Offline Tiocfaidh ár lá Posts: 526 Location: The Shroud of The Foggy Dew Joined: Mar 25^th, 2008 Gender:	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #171 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:28pm	Print Post
	In Dan's defense on this one. he wasn't clear on the answer, but i do see it. He joined when he thought the APA had certain values. Since then, he has felt disenchanted with the organization and, for some reason, feels disenfranchised. As a result, and this is just my take, he wants to change the system to match his view of what things should be, while disenfranchising others. Just my take. I do see how he answered the question.

	Joe
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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #172 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:33pm	Print Post
	Dan, do you believe that the polygraph has any utility at all? And if not, why be a member of the APA?


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #173 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:40pm	Print Post
	Ark, polygraph has great utility, I've seen it countless times in PCSOT applications. It "works," but so does VSA. I remain in the APA in part to give that organization the swift kick in the ass it sorely needs and richly deserves. It's pretty hard to stage a coup d'etat from the outside. Now are we clear?


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #174 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 8:49pm	Print Post
	Yes, a bit more clear, thanks. Your dialog has, for some reason, fostered in me the notion that you considered the polygraph itself disingenuous.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #175 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 9:05pm	Print Post
	When represented as a highly specialized form of detection-of-deception expertise, polygraph is not disingenuous. But when represented as valid science with simple cookie-cutter steps to evidenced-based "lie detection" that's touted as being 85%-89% accurate, it's highly disingenuous -- irresponsibly so, in my opinion.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #176 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 9:37pm	Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Feb 26^th, 2016 at 9:05pm: But when represented as valid science with simple cookie-cutter steps to evidenced-based "lie detection" that's touted as being 85%-89% accurate, it's highly disingenuous -- irresponsibly so, in my opinion. Ah okay then. So, now you have some objective feedback on how you come across which you can use to modify your discourse to be more congruent with your real perspective. You may consider buttressing your argument by conducting your own research to show their results are suspect. If you have 180 plus followers in the APA, soliciting their help into conducting a study would be an achievable goal. You could write a paper and submit it for a peer review. You could also provide an addendum highlighting your assertion that the APA is turning a blind eye to the serious problem of consumer abuse.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #177 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 9:45pm	Print Post
	Ark, get real. Home-grown research and polygraph don't mix. What's needed is a disinterested NAS-style approach, but with multiple new rounds of both lab and field studies that feature a broad mix of "forensic psychophysiologists" -- not more meta-analytic horseshit.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #178 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 9:49pm	Print Post
	I would not consider you "home-grown", but unless you have access to some deep pockets (something that may be hard to get from the bully pulpit), I think my suggestion is novel.


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #179 - Feb 26^th, 2016 at 10:13pm	Print Post
	In fact, I would even volunteer my time to QC the chart interpretations for you--nothing can escape the eye of the angel.


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