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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke (Read 32718 times)
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American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Jun 3rd, 2015 at 12:47pm
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American Polygraph Association elections will be held the week of July 5th. The office of president-elect is being sought by myself and Patrick O'Burke, director of The Polygraph Institute in San Antonio, TX.

Given antipolygraph.org's widespread popularity with APA members and others connected to the polygraph industry, I invite Mr. O'Burke to join me on this forum to debate the issues.

Meanwhile, I am posting my official 500-word APA candidate statement -- (length limited by the association's election rules) -- which has been submitted to the APA for publication.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
PRE-ELECTION STATEMENT OF DANIEL MANGAN, CANDIDATE FOR APA PRESIDENT-ELECT

The time has come for the polygraph profession to fully face reality. In 1997 the American Polygraph Association proffered a highly flattering report – The Validity and Reliability of Polygraph Testing – that spawned a lasting perception of near-perfect accuracy.

Here's a key excerpt from that storied APA-endorsed document:

The American Polygraph Association has a compendium of research studies available on the validity and reliability of polygraph testing. The 80 research projects listed, published since 1980, involved 6,380 polygraph examinations or sets of charts from examinations. Researchers conducted 12 studies of the validity of field examinations, following 2,174 field examinations, providing an average accuracy of 98%.

The industry took that figure and ran with it.

Even after the highly critical NAS report was published in 2002, the APA doubled down on its claim of 98% accuracy, reiterating that assertion on its web site for yet another decade.

When the APA published its meta-analytic survey in 2011 it moderated somewhat on polygraph accuracy, but even today many APA members – including industry notables who should clearly know better –  cling to that erstwhile claim of 98% accuracy.

Such hyperbole may be good for business, but is it's bad for the advancement of polygraph.

Beyond the misleading claims of astronomical accuracy, the polygraph profession continues to ignore a three-front crisis of ethics. Those issues are: victimization of innocent parties via false results; a lack of reality-based research on the effects of countermeasures; and, potentially harmful discrimination within the APA membership.

The APA's mission statement says in part, “...establish the highest standards of moral, ethical, and professional conduct in the polygraph field.” Further, the first of four separate goals that appear under the APA's stated mission is “Serving the cause of truth with integrity, objectivity and fairness to all persons.”

It seems the APA has lost sight of those prime objectives. Consequently, I am running for president-elect on this three-point platform:

  • 1. A bill of rights for polygraph test subjects, similar in spirit to the checks and balances of EPPA,  to elevate informed consent to a higher level and avoid potential harms

    2. An ongoing countermeasure challenge series, integral to APA seminars, designed to better reveal polygraph's real-world accuracy and expose the troubling variations in examiner competence

    3. Equality for all APA members regarding access to educational materials presented at APA events currently restricted to select groups, eliminating the inequities of a de facto caste society


Polygraph is all too often simply about money. While there will always be opportunists in our field, the APA should continually lead by example. That means living up to the APA mission statement. Clearly, gaining respect from the scientific and legal communities requires more than merely attempting to impress those entities with gobbledygook and home-grown statistics.

It's time to eradicate the APA's self-made legacy of unrealistic expectations, and be forthright about the risks, realities and limitations of polygraph testing.

As president-elect, I will work tirelessly to bring truth, honesty and accountability to the profession.


--------------------------------------------



Daniel Mangan,  M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner
www.polygraphman.com
« Last Edit: Jun 4th, 2015 at 9:25pm by Dan Mangan »  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
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Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #1 - Jun 28th, 2015 at 3:06pm
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APA members, electronic elections begin on July 5th -- just one week from today -- and continue through July 11th. You will receive email notification beforehand from election coordinator Don Krapohl.

I urge every APA member to exercise their electoral responsibility and let their voice be heard.

Here's why...

>>>It's time to start cleaning house at the American Polygraph Association. This should begin by making changes in leadership. The revolving door of APA politicos has been the cause of stagnation in several key areas, in my view.

>>>Polygraph victimization is real and must be curtailed. A bill of rights for polygraph test takers -- fully informing them about the risks, realities and limitations of the test -- would be a good beginning. It's time to end the polygraph hu$tle.

>>>Another area of grave concern is that of polygraph's scientific validity. The APA should be open to having its research in that area scrutinized, and finally embrace a countermeasure challenge series. I'm confident the outcomes of both would temper the industry's misplaced exuberance.

>>>Problems involving professional misconduct and shady business ethics, particularly as they relate to PCSOT, need to be faced head on. Turning a blind eye to such shenanigans only perpetuates polygraph's already-battered image.

Make no mistake, this election is a referendum.

Do you want more of the status quo -- (APA members know exactly what I mean) -- or do you want real progress?

There's a reason why polygraph remains the Rodney Dangerfield of the forensic sciences: Respect is hard to come by.

We can help fix that by being honest with ourselves.

Please take a stand and join me in the march forward.

It's time to eradicate the APA's self-made legacy of suspect science, unrealistic expectations and preventable victimization.

Yes, the road to real progress will be a rocky one, but, with your support, I will work tirelessly to bring truth, honesty and accountability to the polygraph profession.

I ask for your vote for president-elect of the American Polygraph Association.

Dan Mangan




« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2015 at 6:30pm by Dan Mangan »  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
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Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #2 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 9:47pm
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Earlier today I was informed by APA president Raymond Nelson that I have lost posting privileges on a private forum for examiners, www.polygraphforum.com.

That forum -- of which I've been a member for years -- is run by pro-polygraph establishment heavyweights Raymond Nelson, Mark Handler and Ben Blalock.

The particular thread that seems to be offending some people centers on the upcoming APA elections and my candidacy for president-elect of that organization.

While my punishment is ostensibly linked to, as APA President Nelson informed me, "an unwillingness or unability [sic] to work nicely with others," I think the aforementioned polygraph establishment wonks are more interested in quashing my brutally honest campaign message, or otherwise marginalizing me as a candidate.

That's my theory, anyway.

Therefore, I'll say here what I can't say there...

If the APA membership wants another polite politician to keep a steady hand on the business-as-usual tiller, they should vote for my opponent.

But if the APA electorate is courageous enough to turn the final page of the polygraph fantasy storybook, face reality head on, and give the indu$try a much-needed swift kick in the ass, there's only one choice on the ballot.

It's time to end the polygraph hu$tle.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #3 - Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:28pm
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Dan Mangan wrote on Jun 29th, 2015 at 9:47pm:
Earlier today I was informed by APA president Raymond Nelson that I have lost posting privileges on a private forum for examiners,


Thank you for having the courage to stand up to them at risk to your career.  You can look at yourself in the mirror and feel good.  At the very least, you've convinced me that there are some good polygraphers out there, something I never thought I'd ever say.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #4 - Jun 30th, 2015 at 1:38am
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Wandersmann, from what I've seen, the polygraph indu$try is intellectually and scientifically in a world of its own.

In my humble opinion, some dutiful industry apologists are heavily influenced by the government's vested interested in polygraph -- although I could be mistaken.

After all, Uncle Sugar is "all in" with the liebox.

Hey, it's just a personal observation that's based on 10+ years of experience in the polygraph trenches -- over five of them in a prison setting.

Maybe I'm wrong.

But maybe I'm not.

In either case, I feel pretty good when I see myself in the mirror, and I sleep very well at night.

Why?

Because I'm dedicated to truth --  the truth about the "test."
« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2015 at 7:38am by Dan Mangan »  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
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Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #5 - Jun 30th, 2015 at 10:12pm
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In the interest of completeness, I will explain that Mr. Mangan is presently not permitted to post at a private forum for polygraph professionals. The reason for this is that Mr. Mangan has engaged in repeated insults towards others and a toxic level of aggression that others are simply tired of tolerating. This i

The private forum is not part of the APA, and not intended for marketing or campaigning. Mr. Mangan was permitted to start a discussion for his campaign.

Regarding Mr. Mangan's concerns about transparency and accountability in the polygraph profession and the science of polygraph testing, I will point out that Mr. Mangan is the "author" of a 2008 scientific study that claimed ~100% accuracy using a proprietary or boutique polygraph technique that is advertised on Mr. Mangan's website and appears to be part of his marketing plan to simultaneously criticize the profession and also claim deterministic perfection.

It strikes me as odd that Mr. Mangan criticizes the polygraph profession at large for overestimating the polygraph while simultaneously publishing and advertising claims of ~100% accuracy. There are many flaws in Mr. Mangan's study, and it appears that he himself does not actually believe the polygraph to be ~100% accurate.

Yet, Mr. Mangan has not yet taken the ethical and responsible step of retracting a publication that claims a ~100% accuracy rate that he does not believe.

It is also odd to me that Mr. Mangan is critical of historical overestimations of polygraph accuracy while also rejecting more conservative recent analysis.

For the record, I have enjoyed a number of fantastic and interesting discussions with Mr. Mangan regarding polygraph topics. We do not often agree on matters of polygraph, but have some shared interests outside of work. Despite our disagreements, the discussions that Mr. Mangan has sometimes raised - when not engaging in insults and social aggression - have been terrific if not sometimes rigorous. For these reasons I will always try to appreciate Mr. Mangan, though I sometimes get tired of  the way he insults others, and I disagree with his reported conclusion of ~100% accuracy.

Mr. Mangan's career is not in jeopardy and I suspect that his oft-articulate spin will be welcome to some.

And finally, I cannot ever recall ever being referred to as a heavy-weight. I do consider myself fortunate to have some interesting opportunities to work hard and be of some usefulness to others in different ways.

rn

  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #6 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 12:25am
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Raymond,
Your input is always welcome. I hope you will become a permanent member of this discussion board. It has evolved considerably and we need more individuals like yourself to participate and contribute to a balanced discussion.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #7 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 3:08am
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Irwin Corey will be a 101 on the 29th, amazing.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #8 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 3:40am
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I know Pat to be a good man.  He has never done anything to harm me that I know of. I have broken bread with this man, have nothing but good things to say about him. He has been respectful to me and my wife, he will get the same back threefold from me until I know otherwise.   Dan, I wouldn't make this personal.  Keep it to the issues and to the facts.  That is my two cents.

Dan, you're my friend and I dig you, but, I'm out.

This has marks on it where it has been touched with a ten foot pole.
  

Joe
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #9 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 5:09am
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Oh and big props to Ray nelson for standing up for himself and using his real name to do so.  If only others had that integrity
  

Joe
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #10 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 12:01pm
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Ray, why do you oppose a bill of rights for polygraph test subjects designed to fully inform them about the risks, realities and limitations of the "test"? Are you a polygraph victimization denier?

While you're at it, Ray, please explain your opposition to a countermeasure challenge series -- ideally held at APA events using the same kind of mock-crime methods favored by NCCA -- pitting countermeasure-savvy test subjects against randomly chosen polygraph operators. Are you afraid the "test" would fail miserably?

As for my marketing methods, I invite interested parties to visit my website at www.polygraphman.com, read every page, explore the four links highlighted as "Recommended Reading," then decide for themselves if I am being misleading or disingenuous.

Finally, I find Ray's complaint of my alleged on-line social aggression laughable, especially in light of the antics often applied by polygraph operators during certain parts of the "test." Seems that some polygraph bullies are great at dishing it out, but just can't bear even the slightest needling themselves.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #11 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 12:22pm
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So Dan, did you author a study claiming 100 percent accuracy for a polygraph technique?  Harder question, can you limit your answer to a yes or no?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #12 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 1:07pm
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pailryder, I'm sick of dealing with on-line phantoms such as you, and getting the dodge from polygraph apologists such as Raymond Nelson.

I will respond to your inquiry after you have fully identified youself (and your identity has been independently verified), and APA president Nelson answers the questions I posed to him immediately prior to your post.

Fair enough?
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #13 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 3:21pm
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Dan Mangan wrote on Jul 1st, 2015 at 1:07pm:
I will respond to your inquiry after you have fully identified youself (and your identity has been independently verified), and APA president Nelson answers the questions I posed to him immediately prior to your post.

Fair enough?


This is a 100% good point.  If Ray Nelson was man enough to post under his real name, maybe others should follow that example. 

It is easy to beat up on someone when hiding behind an "anonymous" screen name.  Of course I have proven that there is no such thing as anonymous on the internet; just ask anyone at behavioral measures or TAPE.  I traced libelous, racist, and threatening posts and emails straight back to a Board Member of TAPE and a managing employee of BM.  But I digress 

If one is going to join in the battle royal, be good and brave enough to ID yourself. 

Be a man and own what you say.  Even my 16 year old son knows better
  

Joe
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #14 - Jul 1st, 2015 at 3:23pm
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Lets also remember Dan, if yes or no questions is the game he wants to play, than I say play it. 

I would sell my soul to the devil for a yes or no question session with them
  

Joe
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