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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke (Read 100629 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #165 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:29pm
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Ex Member wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:14pm:
Wandersmann wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 6:39pm:
I've been taught my entire life that, "rather 1,000 guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison".   

You are referring to Blackstone's Formulation:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Sir William Blackstone 1765



this is why our Constitution is written the way it is; and why it is the supreme law of the land, and a beacon of fairness and equity when applied correctly.
  

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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #166 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:30pm
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You are adroit at avoiding questions Dan.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #167 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:53pm
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Ark, I joined the APA to "serve the cause of truth with integrity,  objectivity and fairness to all persons." 

For decades, that had been the prime goal of the American Polygraph Association.

But, the evidenced-based alleged scientists who control the APA narrative decided just last year to flush that noble goal down the toilet.

Clearly, their values are not my values.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #168 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:09pm
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Ex Member wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 7:30pm:
You are adroit at avoiding questions Dan.


He is picky about what questions he answers
  

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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #169 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:15pm
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Again, I respect your valor and dedication to your cause. But, that didn't answer my question. I am not trying to paint you into a corner, I'm just trying to figure you out. It's perplexing that you want to be president of an organization that advocates something you are totally against and don't believe in. It's like Al Sharpton driving around with a Trump bumper sticker on his Lincoln Town Car.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #170 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:16pm
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I must have missed something. Hit me with your question again.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #171 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:28pm
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In Dan's defense on this one.  he wasn't clear on the answer, but i do see it.

He joined when he thought the APA had certain values.  Since then, he has felt disenchanted with the organization and, for some reason, feels disenfranchised.

As a result, and this is just my take, he wants to change the system to match his view of what things should be, while disenfranchising others.

Just my take.   

I do see how he answered the question.
  

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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #172 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:33pm
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Dan, do you believe that the polygraph has any utility at all? And if not, why be a member of the APA?
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #173 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:40pm
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Ark, polygraph has great utility, I've seen it countless times in PCSOT applications. It "works," but so does VSA.

I remain in the APA in part to give that organization the swift kick in the ass it sorely needs and richly deserves.  It's pretty hard to stage a coup d'etat from the outside.

Now are we clear?
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #174 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 8:49pm
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Yes, a bit more clear, thanks. Your dialog has, for some reason, fostered in me the notion that you considered the polygraph itself disingenuous.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #175 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:05pm
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When represented as a highly specialized form of detection-of-deception expertise, polygraph is not disingenuous. But when represented as valid science with simple cookie-cutter steps to evidenced-based "lie detection" that's touted as being 85%-89% accurate, it's highly disingenuous -- irresponsibly so, in my opinion.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #176 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:37pm
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Dan Mangan wrote on Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:05pm:
But when represented as valid science with simple cookie-cutter steps to evidenced-based "lie detection" that's touted as being 85%-89% accurate, it's highly disingenuous -- irresponsibly so, in my opinion.

Ah okay then. So, now you have some objective feedback on how you come across which you can use to modify your discourse to be more congruent with your real perspective.

You may consider buttressing your argument by conducting your own research to show their results are suspect. If you have 180 plus followers in the APA, soliciting their help into conducting a study would be an achievable goal. You could write a paper and submit it for a peer review. You could also provide an addendum highlighting your assertion that the APA is turning a blind eye to the serious problem of consumer abuse.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #177 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:45pm
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Ark, get real.

Home-grown research and polygraph don't mix.

What's needed is a disinterested NAS-style approach, but with multiple new rounds of both lab and field studies that feature a broad mix of "forensic psychophysiologists" -- not more meta-analytic horseshit.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #178 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 9:49pm
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I would not consider you "home-grown", but unless you have access to some deep pockets (something that may be hard to get from the bully pulpit), I think my suggestion is novel.
  
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Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke
Reply #179 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 10:13pm
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In fact, I would even volunteer my time to QC the chart interpretations for you--nothing can escape the eye of the angel.
  
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