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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training? (Read 121292 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Operation Lie Busters
Reply #15 - Apr 10th, 2013 at 9:24am
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As noted on the blog, the very name "Operation Lie Busters" seems to confirm that polygraph countermeasures are not peripheral to this criminal investigation, but central to it. It appears that being unable to detect polygraph countermeasures, the U.S. government is seeking to criminalize the teaching or learning of them. Feel safer now?

As also noted on the blog, the head of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection polygraph unit and a second CBP polygraph operator are scheduled to give a three-hour presentation on Operation Lie Busters on 3 June 2013 before a private polygraph organization. I think the public should also be allowed to know the details of this "precedent setting" operation. Don't you?
  

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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #16 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 1:15pm
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Criminalize the teaching or learning of polygraph countermeasures? I'd love to see a draft of the proposed law. It seems quite obvious, that the government doesn't have any new technical advancement ideas on how to improve 100+year polygraph-type antiquated technology, to allow the Office of Technology Assessment (OTA) to conduct a re-evaluation that shows a dramatic improvement in reliability and accuracy. Hence, because the polygraph has not improved at all in that last 100+ years and there are no available advancement in technology to even consider beginning development on specific countermeasure tools and applications, then I guess the government just decided, let's draft a law that criminalizes the mere practice of trying to beat a system that doesn't provide definitive enough results to tell a lie from the truth.! LOL!!

Maybe we should just go back to the Chinese way of putting handfuls of rice in people's mouths. Grin
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #17 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 12:28pm
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I've already posted about this here, but to follow up in this thread, on Friday 16 August 2013, McClatchy published a blockbuster report by Marisa Taylor and Cleve R. Wootsen, Jr. about Operation Lie Busters:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199590/seeing-threats-feds-target-instruct...

The operation targeted Doug Williams, who has not been arrested but who may remain under investigation and Chad Dixon, who has accepted a plea arrangement and faces possible jail time (prosecutors are seeking a two-year sentence).

Operation Lie Busters may also have targeted me. In May of this year, I received a suspicious e-mail that seems like an attempt to set me up on a charge of material support to terrorism.

I'll be happy to discuss this with any journalist interested in further reporting.
  

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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #18 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 6:11pm
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Trying to make an example by prosecuting a little league coach will eventually backfire on them. The Genie is out of the bottle, there is no turning back.
  
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #19 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 7:32pm
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Didn't "coach" cop a plea?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #20 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 7:40pm
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pailryder wrote on Aug 18th, 2013 at 7:32pm:
Didn't "coach" cop a plea? 

Even more demonstrative of my point; they are going after an amateur, who was able to be scared into a plea bargain. Steam rolling over an ant will have little effect on the eventual outcome.
  
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #21 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 8:24pm
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I guess we have different definitions of an amateur.  When one advertises one's services and collects money for said service, to me that is a professional.  If he is truly an amateur, who trained him?
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #22 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 9:58pm
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I sincerely hope the Feds do not make any attempt to prosecute Doug Williams.

However, if the Department of Justice is stupid enough to indict Doug, I hope he, or someone, has the deep pockets required in order to mount a credible defense.

« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2013 at 12:35am by meangino »  
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #23 - Aug 19th, 2013 at 1:31am
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meangino

It doesn't take deep pockets if one knows civil rights statutes. There's no bases in fact for the DOJ to force this issue. It's a scare tactic that scared one dude in to pleading guilty. He's weak. I'm sure Doug is very capable of defending himself.
  
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #24 - Aug 19th, 2013 at 2:49pm
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According to a recent Fox News article, Doug Williams has been ARRESTED!

The article says both Doug Williams, and another anti-polygraph advocate Chad Dixon, both "agreed to meet with clients for a fee who they thought were connected to drug trafficking or were correction officers who had received sexual favors from an underage girl. But the potential polygraph students were really undercover agents".

Is this true Doug?  Did they arrest you?  When and where did this happen?  Are these allegations true? 

This government is getting out of control!  Polygraphs don't work.  Learning about polygraphs and countermeasures is as much of a crime as learning about magic and how the tricks work.  I know how magic tricks are done.  So does that mean when the government starts using magic and deception in some "interests of national security", that I'll be a criminal?  This has got to stop!

I would like for Doug Williams, George Maschke, and others to have a big national television show where they expose every detail about the government polygraphs and how they work.  Show everyone how to beat them.  Make polygraphers cry because they can't get any confessions out of any  more subjects and there whole "magic show is ruined".  The whole USA will be educated on how to beat the machine, and more and more people will beat the CIA, FBI, NSA, Border Patrol, etc. polygraphs.  Make it useless.  Put polygraphers out of a job.

Oh, by the way, I took polygraphs and I'll tell you the best countermeasures is the mental thoughts one.  Breathing changes may be detected with the tubes around your chest, and tongue biting may be seen if you screw it up.  Best bet is to use mental thoughts.  Nobody, and no machine, can read your mind.  Never have, never will.
  
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #25 - Aug 20th, 2013 at 1:33am
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Actually, this is going to come back and haunt the feds. What they actually accomplished is a godsend to future instructors of countermeasures. Simply have a lawyer draw up a terms of service affidavit to be signed by the student stipulating that they will will not use polygraph countermeasures to obstruct an agency procedure nor use them to cover up an unreported felony.

Also, this policy also simply verifies that countermeasures are effective. As soon as the intitial gloating is over, they'll find that they are pissing in the wind.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #26 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 4:49am
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Marisa Taylor's recent article about Operation Lie Busters has been receiving a lot of attention, including this Techdirt article (which has also been posted to Reddit, where it has generated considerable commentary):

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130820/00514824248/federal-official-declares-...

Now, the title is sensationalistic. The head of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection polygraph unit, John Schwartz, didn't suggest that "anyone" who speaks out against lie detector tests should be criminally investigated. But his remark at the American Association of Police Polygraphists' annual seminar on 3 June of this year that those who "protest the loudest and the longest are the ones that I believe we need to focus our attention on" suggests that Operation Lie Busters' targets were selected (and entrapped) in retaliation for their criticism of polygraphy.

I think that Schwartz's remark will be of value to the defense in any additional criminal cases that may stem from Operation Lie Busters.
  

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New Details in U.S. v. Chad Dixon
Reply #27 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 7:04am
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On Friday, 30 August 2013, Marisa Taylor of McClatchy published a new article in her ongoing investigative series on federal polygraph policy:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200876/feds-want-prison-time-in-unpreceden...

The article concerns the case of Chad Dixon of Indiana, who has accepted a plea arrangement and faces sentencing. McClatchy has also published two pleadings in connection with an upcoming sentencing hearing. The first is by the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia and the second is by Dixon's counsel, Nina Ginsburg:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200859/chad-dixon-sentencing-filing.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200860/chad-dixon-defense-attorney-filing....

In arguing for a longer sentence, the government filing implicitly concedes that polygraph countermeasures work.

On Saturday, 31 August, the Washington Post also published an article about the Dixon case. Doug Williams and I are among those interviewed for it:

www.washingtonpost.com/local/indiana-man-accused-of-teaching-people-to-beat-lie-...

Reader comments on both the McClatchy and Washington Post articles run overwhelmingly against the government's position in this case.

Also on Saturday, a commentary I posted to Slashdot made the front page:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/08/31/1151254/feds-seek-prison-for-man-who-taug...

As a result of that article and numerous mentions on social media, AntiPolygraph.org had the busiest day in our 13-year history in terms of data transferred. The number of people who downloaded The Lie Behind the Lie Detector yesterday alone exceeds the <100 people trained by Chad Dixon by at least an order of magnitude.

In what has come to be known as the "Streisand Effect," the government's attempt to suppress knowledge of polygraph countermeasures is having the opposite effect of spreading it.

Update: The Lie Behind the Lie Detector was downloaded about 15,000 times on Saturday and by mid-day Sunday (server time) had been downloaded about 8,000 times.
« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2013 at 1:02pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
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Re: New Details in U.S. v. Chad Dixon
Reply #28 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 3:04pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 7:04am:
On Friday, 30 August 2013, Marisa Taylor of McClatchy published a new article in her ongoing investigative series on federal polygraph policy:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200876/feds-want-prison-time-in-unpreceden...

The article concerns the case of Chad Dixon of Indiana, who has accepted a plea arrangement and faces sentencing. McClatchy has also published two pleadings in connection with an upcoming sentencing hearing. The first is by the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia and the second is by Dixon's counsel, Nina Ginsburg:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200859/chad-dixon-sentencing-filing.html

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/30/200860/chad-dixon-defense-attorney-filing....

In arguing for a longer sentence, the government filing implicitly concedes that polygraph countermeasures work.

On Saturday, 31 August, the Washington Post also published an article about the Dixon case. Doug Williams and I are among those interviewed for it:

www.washingtonpost.com/local/indiana-man-accused-of-teaching-people-to-beat-lie-...

Reader comments on both the McClatchy and Washington Post articles run overwhelmingly against the government's position in this case.

Also on Saturday, a commentary I posted to Slashdot made the front page:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/08/31/1151254/feds-seek-prison-for-man-who-taug...

As a result of that article and numerous mentions on social media, AntiPolygraph.org had the busiest day in our 13-year history in terms of data transferred. The number of people who downloaded The Lie Behind the Lie Detector yesterday alone exceeds the <100 people trained by Chad Dixon by at least an order of magnitude.

In what has come to be known as the "Streisand Effect," the government's attempt to suppress knowledge of polygraph countermeasures is having the opposite effect of spreading it.

Update: The Lie Behind the Lie Detector was downloaded about 15,000 times on Saturday and by mid-day Sunday (server time) had been downloaded about 8,000 times.


KUDOS to you George!  Now, I challenge everyone who downloaded George's book to donate at least one dollar!
  

It is time to put a stop to this government sponsored sadism perpetrated by those who use this insidious Orwellian instrument of torture called the 'lie detector'!  Education is the most effective weapon I have to finally put a stop to the abusive practice of polygraph 'testing'.  Help me by educating yourself and others.  My book FROM COP TO CRUSADER: THE STORY OF MY FIGHT AGAINST THE DANGROUS MYTH OF "LIE DETECTION" is available on Amazon in e-book or paperback - please get this book and send it to as many people as you can - it literally destroys the myth of "lie detection"!  Doug Williams
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Re: Is It a Crime to Provide or Receive Polygraph Countermeasure Training?
Reply #29 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 6:13pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 7:04am:
Update: The Lie Behind the Lie Detector was downloaded about 15,000 times on Saturday and by mid-day Sunday (server time) had been downloaded about 8,000 times.

As soon as I heard of this, I knew it would backfire on them. The antipolygraph community owes a debt of gratitude to the Customs and Border Protection Polygraph Unit for advancing our cause more than we could ever have imagined.
  
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