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AntiPolygraph.org Message Board › Polygraph and CVSA Forums › Polygraph Policy › U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)

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U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) (Read 19115 times)

George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Aug 16^th, 2013 at 9:13pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	McClatchy national correspondent Marisa Taylor has published a new article in her ongoing investigative series on federal polygraph policy that has significant implications for sites like this one that publish information on polygraph countermeasures: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199590/seeing-threats-feds-target-instruct...

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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polytime New User Offline Posts: 4 Joined: Apr 3^rd, 2013	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #1 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 10:28pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Just when I was going to order business cards and an awning to promote my new line of "dolls".


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RoamingBack New User Offline Posts: 22 Joined: Feb 7^th, 2012	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #2 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 1:32pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	One of many 'invasions' into once sacred grounds of the 1st Amendment. Recently started to read an interesting book, "A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State" by Whitehead and it is a devastating indictment of "just" such behaviors and plans. We are losing all that we fought for since 1776 (not to be expansive, but...) and many younger folks (under 40) have no idea what totalitarianism is or how it comes about. Sad. This example, more or less how to avoid the falsehoods and slander of polygraphs, goes right along with Bloomberg's recently stated desire to 'fingerprint ALL public housing residents' within New York. You can bet that 'posse comitatus' will be circumvented not by legislation but by the militarization of L.E. Patriots beware... the United States of America is going to be the USSA... farewell freedoms!


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anti-poly conservative Guest	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #3 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 1:36pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	This is horrible. So was Doug Williams arrested? Be careful George Maschke, you may soon not be able to ever return to the USA for you'll be arrested and charged as soon as you get off the plane! I always feared government tyranny. It's coming. People being arrested for learning how to beat a machine that doesn't even work. Schools allowing students to use same restroom and locker room as to not "discriminate" (yep, this stupid law is effective in CA starting January 2014), and businesses (and soon churches) facing legal action for not supporting and accommodating f*g-marriages. Is the government going to arrest me for not recycling too? Or maybe when someone sneezes, and I say "God Bless You", I'll be immediately facing felony charges for forcing my religion on somebody. Ok, I've gotten way off topic. Rant over. Polygraphs don't work if you don't believe in them. They just want to scare you into confessing. You never see the computer screen the polygrapher is looking at. The polygrapher may be playing Angry Birds the whole time and you wouldn't know it. I've lied, concealed past transgressions, and passed a poly...administered by the FBI.


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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #4 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 3:51pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	I think that with Operation Lie Busters, the federal government has overreached. Instead of trying to outlaw the teaching of polygraph countermeasures, federal policy makers should come to terms with the reality that polygraphy doesn't work, and that it's vulnerable to simple countermeasures that are not difficult to learn. Information about how to fool the polygraph is widely published, and it is pointless to try to suppress it. To my knowledge, Doug Williams has not been charged with any crime. His website remains on-line, and in my opinion, what he is doing (teaching people how to pass a pseudoscientific procedure that is wrongly called a "test") is constitutionally-protected speech. I think it would be a mistake for any federal prosecutor to charge him with a federal crime.

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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George W. Maschke Global Moderator Offline Make-believe science yields make-believe security. Posts: 6211 Joined: Sep 29^th, 2000	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #5 - Aug 18^th, 2013 at 7:03am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Note that McClathy's article on Operation Lie Busters includes three documents: 1) The U.S. Customs and Border Protection polygraph unit's handbook: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199564/customs-internal-affair-report.html The 304-page document includes a section (VII) on countermeasures at pp. 61-65 of the PDF. It documents no clear methodology for actually detecting polygraph countermeasures. The decision to target Doug Williams and Chad Dixon (and possibly me) suggests that the federal government has no reliable method of detecting countermeasures and thus went after Williams' and Dixon's customer records. 2) The National Center for Credibility Assessment's 2013 report of inspection for the CBP polygraph unit: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199562/customs-quality-assurance-program.h... This document shows that in 2012, despite having no reliable method of countermeasure detection, CBP polygraphers accused 6% of applicants of using countermeasures. 3) A cover letter from NCCA director William F. Norris to U.S. Customs and Border Protection Assistant Commissioner for Internal Affairs James Tomsheck transmitting the 2013 inspection report: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199563/dod-letter-on-the-customs-polygraph... As I write, 213 comments have been posted on the article. I didn't see a single one opining that Operation Lie Busters was a good idea. Commentary on Twitter has been overwhelmingly against Operation Lie Busters too, as has been discussion on Slashdot: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/08/17/1144248/feds-target-instructors-of-polygr...

	George W. Maschke I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time. Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.) E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com Wire: @ap_org Threema: A4PYDD5S Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Twoblock God Member Offline Posts: 732 Location: AR. Joined: Oct 15^th, 2002 Gender:	Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) Reply #6 - Aug 18^th, 2013 at 7:58am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Has any of you read the Communist Manifesto? If you have, don't you think Obama and this administration is applying it to the enth degree? I certainly do. This investigation is part of "control the masses". However, I might add that globalization of this country was started in Washington D.C. by many of our elected officials many, many years ago. I have researched and studied it for 50 years.


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U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)

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