Normal Topic U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes) (Read 18190 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6060
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Aug 16th, 2013 at 9:13pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
McClatchy national correspondent Marisa Taylor has published a new article in her ongoing investigative series on federal polygraph policy that has significant implications for sites like this one that publish information on polygraph countermeasures:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199590/seeing-threats-feds-target-instruct...
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box polytime
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 3rd, 2013
Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #1 - Aug 16th, 2013 at 10:28pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Just when I was going to order business cards and an awning to promote my new line of "dolls".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box RoamingBack
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 7th, 2012
Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #2 - Aug 17th, 2013 at 1:32pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
One of many 'invasions' into once sacred grounds of the 1st Amendment. Recently started to read an interesting book, "A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State" by Whitehead and it is a devastating indictment of "just" such behaviors and plans.

We are losing all that we fought for since 1776 (not to be expansive, but...) and many younger folks (under 40) have no idea what totalitarianism is or how it comes about. Sad. This example, more or less how to avoid the falsehoods and slander of polygraphs, goes right along with Bloomberg's recently stated desire to 'fingerprint ALL public housing residents' within New York. You can bet that 'posse comitatus' will be circumvented not by legislation but by the militarization of L.E.  Patriots beware... the United States of America is going to be the USSA... farewell freedoms! Sad
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box anti-poly conservative
Guest


Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #3 - Aug 17th, 2013 at 1:36pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  

This is horrible.  So was Doug Williams arrested?

Be careful George Maschke, you may soon not be able to ever return to the USA for you'll be arrested and charged as soon as you get off the plane!

I always feared government tyranny.  It's coming.  People being arrested for learning how to beat a machine that doesn't even work.  Schools allowing students to use same restroom and locker room as to not "discriminate" (yep, this stupid law is effective in CA starting January 2014), and businesses (and soon churches) facing legal action for not supporting and accommodating fag-marriages.  Is the government going to arrest me for not recycling too?  Or maybe when someone sneezes, and I say "God Bless You", I'll be immediately facing felony charges for forcing my religion on somebody.

Ok, I've gotten way off topic.  Rant over.  Polygraphs don't work if you don't believe in them.  They just want to scare you into confessing.  You never see the computer screen the polygrapher is looking at.  The polygrapher may be playing Angry Birds the whole time and you wouldn't know it.  I've lied, concealed past transgressions, and passed a poly...administered by the FBI.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6060
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #4 - Aug 17th, 2013 at 3:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I think that with Operation Lie Busters, the federal government has overreached. Instead of trying to outlaw the teaching of polygraph countermeasures, federal policy makers should come to terms with the reality that polygraphy doesn't work, and that it's vulnerable to simple countermeasures that are not difficult to learn. Information about how to fool the polygraph is widely published, and it is pointless to try to suppress it.

To my knowledge, Doug Williams has not been charged with any crime. His website remains on-line, and in my opinion, what he is doing (teaching people how to pass a pseudoscientific procedure that is wrongly called a "test") is constitutionally-protected speech. I think it would be a mistake for any federal prosecutor to charge him with a federal crime.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6060
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #5 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 7:03am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Note that McClathy's article on Operation Lie Busters includes three documents:

1) The U.S. Customs and Border Protection polygraph unit's handbook:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199564/customs-internal-affair-report.html

The 304-page document includes a section (VII) on countermeasures at pp. 61-65 of the PDF. It documents no clear methodology for actually detecting polygraph countermeasures. The decision to target Doug Williams and Chad Dixon (and possibly me) suggests that the federal government has no reliable method of detecting countermeasures and thus went after Williams' and Dixon's customer records.

2) The National Center for Credibility Assessment's 2013 report of inspection for the CBP polygraph unit:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199562/customs-quality-assurance-program.h...

This document shows that in 2012, despite having no reliable method of countermeasure detection, CBP polygraphers accused 6% of applicants of using countermeasures.

3) A cover letter from NCCA director William F. Norris to U.S. Customs and Border Protection Assistant Commissioner for Internal Affairs James Tomsheck transmitting the 2013 inspection report:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199563/dod-letter-on-the-customs-polygraph...

As I write, 213 comments have been posted on the article. I didn't see a single one opining that Operation Lie Busters was a good idea. Commentary on Twitter has been overwhelmingly against Operation Lie Busters too, as has been discussion on Slashdot:

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/08/17/1144248/feds-target-instructors-of-polygr...
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Twoblock
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 732
Location: AR.
Joined: Oct 15th, 2002
Gender: Male
Re: U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)
Reply #6 - Aug 18th, 2013 at 7:58am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Has any of you read the Communist Manifesto? If you have, don't you think Obama and this administration is applying it to the enth degree? I certainly do. This investigation is part of "control the masses". However, I might add that globalization of this country was started in Washington D.C. by many of our elected officials many, many years ago. I have researched and studied it for 50 years.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
U.S. Government Considers Teaching of Polygraph Countermeasures a Crime (Sometimes)

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X