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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (Read 50621 times)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #60 - Mar 17th, 2008 at 1:11pm
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NoLieGuy4U

You have seen proof of my efforts in the legislative arena on these boards and you still ask questions as to my efforts. Gee Whiz!! Polygraph is the very least of my efforts and yet you try to portray it as the major portion. My glass is clear. Yours seem to be clouded by your hatred of George and this website. I have showed you proof of my efforts outside of the polygraph. You have been challenged to show proof of your strong accusations against George and as yet you haven't/can't provided one iota of proof. Until you do your accusations will fall on deaf ears and you will be awarded no credibility here.

If I was told my scientist uncle was aiding Irainian intelligence with atomic secrets, I would say prove it beyound a shadow of a doubt and I will deal with him severally. If you can't, then our family will deal with you severally.

If you have knowledge of an ongoing investigation into George's activities, and you are making that knowledge available on a public website, then you are a traitor to the investigation. If, on the other hand, you can't prove your accusations, well --- you could be in trouble from either direction.

If you can't prove your accusations, then I predict that you will be ignored by the readers of this site from now on. It starts with me right now. I can better use my time trying to hold to the little standards we have left.

Polygraphers are intent on having the last word. So go ahead.
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #61 - Mar 17th, 2008 at 2:10pm
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TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on Mar 16th, 2008 at 3:33pm:
NLG4U

Okay, let's try a couple more direct questions.

Do you believe counter-measures CAN work in a Control Question Test?

Do you believe that counter-measures are effectively discovered the vast majority of the time?

My answer to the utility of the CM countermeasure question attempts are best represented in my Three Musketeers submission.   


Bull:

I don't want a reference to some stupid fairy tale, answer my questions directly, NLG4U.
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #62 - Mar 22nd, 2008 at 4:29am
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    NoPolyCop,

Okay, let's try a couple more direct questions.Do you believe counter-measures CAN work in a Control Question Test?
MY ANSWER:  In regard to PHYSICAL countermeasure attempts, probably not.  I say this based on the Examiner having modern computerized equipment with motion sensors.  The failure of the test subject to cooperate would simply cause at best an inconclusive outcome, or perhaps have such efforts be regarded as deceptive in their own right, which--- not surprisingly, would result in that person being interrogated.  Therefore, I don't believe such a test subject would create a pure 180 degree outcome as you are dreaming / hoping for. 

   In regard to mental countermeasures, you assume the variable that the "Performer" / test subject is using just the right amount vs. too little or too much, and that they could do so consistently.  If such an ability were true, then why would we test intel sources who may have been trained in same.  The simple truth is, no government has been able to train their personnel to "Beat" a polygraph test should the other side have had them in a position to test them.  Rather, they know at best they could cause an Inconclusive; again given the variables of modern day equipment and a properly trained examiner.   

Do you believe that counter-measures are effectively discovered the vast majority of the time?

  Your question presumes the level of training and equipment are consistent with each Examiner for a consistant answer to this.  What I believe is true is that based on gutter rats like Doug Williams, and turn coats who assembled this site; that the polygraph community has never been better.  You folks gave them the very attention they needed for funding and improvements.  Further, that most of the techniques discussed here are / were oriented toward the analog instrument without motion sensors.  Most of those cold war era examiners are now retired, and a younger generation of computer examiners quite dedicated have the best tools and training we all pay for.  You know what, they just can't get enough of such professionals.  Don't believe that ?  DACA is backed up over a year's wait, and agencies are begging for talent.  That sort of goes against the grain of what you see here, but this place is a fantasy of the failed, a dream of the would be deceptive.  You may not like them, but don't blame the Centurion for standing their post with their given general orders. 

  NoPolyCop, it is too bad that you had the experiences you did, but don't blame the inadimate instrument as it is merely a recording device.  Rather, look to the human element as to where your objections are, as that is where Medicine, Aviation, Construction, Polygraph, and other human endeavors fall short.  That we persue each of these is not a sin, as the persuit of greater truth / realization is inherant in all mankind.  Not all mankind is inherantly Truthful. 

   Now, was that covering what you have asked thorough enough ?
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #63 - Mar 22nd, 2008 at 2:03pm
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TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on Mar 22nd, 2008 at 4:29am:
   NoPolyCop,

Okay, let's try a couple more direct questions.Do you believe counter-measures CAN work in a Control Question Test?

Do you believe that counter-measures are effectively discovered the vast majority of the time?

    Now, was that covering what you have asked thorough enough ?


No.  Because an honest polygrapher would have answered the questions like this.

1)  They CAN work if the examinee can either  produce physiological reactions during the control questions, or minimize reactions during the relevant questions.

2)  Actually, we don't have a clue, because logic would dictate that if countermeasures are successful, we would not be detecting them.

See, NLG, that wasn't so tough, was it?
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #64 - Mar 23rd, 2008 at 3:56am
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"n.p.c.",

why woud you answer the very question you are asking us, examiners?

It seems rather rude to support your assertions that we don't answer your question when you simply ask, then answer the very questions you ask with your own rhetoric, then accuse us examiners of not answering your questions...

Sackett  
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #65 - Mar 23rd, 2008 at 4:36am
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sackett wrote on Mar 23rd, 2008 at 3:56am:
"n.p.c.",

why woud you answer the very question you are asking us, examiners?

It seems rather rude to support your assertions that we don't answer your question when you simply ask, then answer the very questions you ask with your own rhetoric, then accuse us examiners of not answering your questions...

Sackett  


Cause he know the answer and can't get a straight one from you.
You think??
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #66 - Mar 23rd, 2008 at 3:07pm
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sackett wrote on Mar 23rd, 2008 at 3:56am:
"n.p.c.",

why woud you answer the very question you are asking us, examiners?

Sackett  


Let me answer  your question directly and honestly. Grin

It is because by doing so, I lend credibility to this site, by exposing the unwillingness for polygraphers like you to answer direct questions directly.  NOTE: This is an example of a direct answer.

You see,  my dear friend Sackett, my questioning is not done so I personally can find out the answers.  If that was so, I would PM you.  No, the questions I ask are asked to help educate the "guest" readers of  this site, (of which there are 20 or more at any given time).  Educate enough people about the fallacy of polygraphy, and eventually polygraph is debunked to the extent all it is good for is a game show prop.

The unfortunate issue is that it does have some merit, but because of polygraphers being unwilling to act honestly in their profession, they are killing their own goose.  NOTE: This is an example of an explanation.  
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #67 - Oct 19th, 2008 at 9:46am
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George W. Maschke wrote on Jan 10th, 2006 at 2:37pm:
The index page on the website www.tawhed.ws where the HTML version of the article, "Usturah jahaz kashf al-kidhb" (The Myth of the Lie Detector) is listed, which provides links to this and other articles on intelligence and security matters, indicates that the article on the lie detector has been viewed more than 4,200 times:

http://www.tawhed.ws/c?i=44

The same page also indicates that the article has been downloaded (it's available as a zipped Microsoft Word document here) some 740 times.


Note that this article is still on-line and has now been viewed some 13,851 times and downloaded some 2,750 times.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
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PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #68 - Aug 12th, 2009 at 9:26am
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The jihadi article, "The Myth of the Lie Detector" (أسطورة جهاز كشف الكذب), is still available on www.tawhed.ws, though it now has a new URL:

http://www.tawhed.ws/r?i=7t40y4fs

As of 12 August 2009, it has been viewed 15,930 times and downloaded 3,703 times. A banner advertising the article has also been added to www.tawhed.ws. (See attached graphics.)
  

r-3165.gif ( 8 KB | Downloads )
r-3165.gif

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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