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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (Read 50633 times)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #30 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 1:55pm
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NoLieGuy:

I am curious. Are you using government resources, (computer equipment) and are you on the clock when you are posting your messages to this board?
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #31 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:20pm
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n.p.c.

I don't know about the others, but I am. 

Reason?  It is continuing education for any examiner.  I can't catch you guys if I don't know what you're talking about and/or what to look for in the test....    Cool


Sackett
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #32 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:23pm
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sackett wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:20pm:
n.p.c.

I don't know about the others, but I am.  

Reason?  It is continuing education for any examiner.  I can't catch you guys if I don't know what you're talking about and/or what to look for in the test....    

Sackett



SO MUCH FOR CLAIM THAT CM'S DON'T WORK Shocked
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #33 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:31pm
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T.M. Cullen wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 8:11am:
Quote:
You've peppered various message threads with scattered accusations that I have betrayed various oaths, and may well have broken certain laws. You've even suggested that I have committed the capital offense of treason.


And he does so under an anonymous name, like some cowardly cur.



Mr/Ms Cullen,

most posters here, both anti and pro polygraph do so under monikers rather than their own name.  George has made a hobby of "outing" examiners so it really doesn't do us any good to "hide" behind one.  Hence, I do not.

Conversely, most anti posters hide behind a false name for the convenience of anonymity.  George seems to respect their anonymity.
Bias?  I think so!

Why are the anti posters hiding behind false monikers or cutesy false nicknames!?  They have nothing to loose through their identification.  What are they hiding from?  They've already been falsely deemed liars by the agencies they applied with, right?  So what's the point?  

Though they certainly have the right to hide, when you insinuate cowardice, I think the anonymous anti posters are the true cowards on this board!  One anonymous pro-polygraph poster does not make for a legion of cowards... legions of anonymous anti's, do.


Sackett
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #34 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:38pm
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notguilty1 wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:23pm:
sackett wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 3:20pm:
n.p.c.

I don't know about the others, but I am.  

Reason?  It is continuing education for any examiner.  I can't catch you guys if I don't know what you're talking about and/or what to look for in the test....    

Sackett



SO MUCH FOR CLAIM THAT CM'S DON'T WORK Shocked


"notguilty1",

I have already stated in previous postings (you're not paying attention again) that influencing physiology/biology during a test can certainly effect an examination.  If your examiner is sleeping or playing cards during the test (for example) he won't catch them.  BUT, if I and other examiners know what to look for (thanks George for making an easy to read guide of the opposing team's playbook) during the examination, your efforts at CM's will not only be fruitless but also seem very lame when attempted.   Sad

Suprisingly, I am one of this site's biggest supporters; amongst examiners...!  Wink



Sackett
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #35 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 6:09pm
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Quote:
Conversely, most anti posters hide behind a false name for the convenience of anonymity.  George seems to respect their anonymity.
Bias?  I think so!


Accusing somebody of treason under a false name is "cowardly".

BTW, my wife doesn't post or visit here.

Which polygrapher has GM tossed?

Biased?  He just banned "LALE" (an "anti") the other day.

When did GM NOT respect a polygrapher's anonymity?
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2008 at 6:40pm by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #36 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 7:07pm
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T.M. Cullen wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 6:09pm:
Quote:
Conversely, most anti posters hide behind a false name for the convenience of anonymity.  George seems to respect their anonymity.
Bias?  I think so!


Accusing somebody of treason under a false name is "cowardly".

BTW, my wife doesn't post or visit here.

Which polygrapher has GM tossed?

Biased?  He just banned "LALE" (an "anti") the other day.

When did GM NOT respect a polygrapher's anonymity?



I don't necessarily diagree, but, isn't this supposed to be about free speech? An open debate of polygraph, etc, etc.  Opinions ARE opinions.

This has nothing to do with family members...  Initally I had no idea why you made that statement...Then, I realized my address.  Well, if you don't use a moniker or false name like the rest, and you only use initials, I have no idea that you were male or female.  The last thing I want to do is be accused of is being sexist on top of all the other names I get here.  You have now made it clear, Mr Cullen.

I don't what you mean by "tossed."  If you mean banning them, I think there have been a couple in the past in which he has banned (from recollection). Maybe I'm mistaken, probably not.

Regarding "outing" an examiner, there has been numerous incident in the past where George has purposefully followed up on IP addresses and reported their origins here in order to "out" the poster as an examiner.  Most recently, the "outing" of several examiners who posted here under assumed names (through the cutesy identification by fairly tale/fictional characters, etc) obviously in an attempt to embarrass them, was noted.  Regardless of their intent or supposed conspiracy.  Is this the same free speech under the provisions of anonymity afforded to all?  I Don't think so...  Nothing of the same attempt has ever been done to any "anti" poster that I'm aware of.

Sackett  

P.S.  George banned "LALE" because he was personally insulting and "over the top."  I believe he'll be back under a different name and log in.  His personality/ego can't let him stay away...I say within 2 weeks we'll see a "new" poster proclaiming all the garbage he was spewing....
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #37 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 7:34pm
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Sackett,

You protest too much methinks. The message board at PolygraphPlace.com lists you as a moderator for the private forum. I fully respect and understand polygraphers' desire to have a private forum. But I note that on the public forums, polygraph critics such as myself are not permitted to post at all. Some years ago, both Drew Richardson and I were banned from PolygraphPlace.com for posting polite but dissenting views and information, and our posts were all deleted.

As for polygraphers' identities being disclosed here, it has only happened rarely, and has been the consequence of egregious bad behavior on their part, including deliberately spreading disinformation. For examples, see:
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #38 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 8:08pm
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George,

I only protest inequality when methinks equality is proclaimed and I do not experience or observe it.

As a moderator on Polygraphplace.com, I have not deleted or removed any postings (except my own) in the several years I have been on the site.

Further, the purpose of the Polygraph Place web site is to provide a place where interested people can inquire of polygraph examiners, their thoughts concerning issues personal to the poster. 

Polygraphplace.com IS NOT an open discussion venue/forum whereby attacks on the profession may be launched. That is what happens here!

Sackett
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #39 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 8:26pm
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      T.M. Cullen,

   I wanted to take a moment to assure you personally, from me to you, that if you stepped into my office you would note awards on my wall for both humanitarian service one on one saving human life in the third world in places others did not want to go. I have seen famine, death, disease, and disaster driven refugees to whom I exposed myself at the risk of my own health and life, and for which flag officers placed medals on my chest.  I look in the mirror everyday knowing that I have worked in humanitarian projects for over thirty years helping others start or secure the American dream, and am the first in my extended family others turn to when threatened in any way for both advice and protection.  Such is not the chapters that built the life story of a coward.  Further, that anominity is provided at this site is not a luxury I created, but one the moderator provides in good taste consistent with his mission that the polygraph topic, and the macro surrounding issues, be dealt with in their entirety.  I enjoy as you do that priviledge, and you may be assured that I hold these opinions no matter which name you know me by.  That anyone would seek to "Out" someone because of their opinion is in fact an act of a coward unless that unknown person has committed a violent crime, and a legitimate authority such as the Police needed that information.  I do not act as, or seek the company of anyone who is a coward.  Those who know who I am know better, so I grant you a pass in saying so from an emotional reaction.
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #40 - Mar 13th, 2008 at 8:36pm
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     NoPolyCop,

   You asked: "NoLieGuy:

I am curious. Are you using government resources, (computer equipment) and are you on the clock when you are posting your messages to this board?"

My Response:  You may assume that I own my own computer, participate on my own free time, and that my opinions, thoughts, and deliberations are my own as an individual. 

May I ask you, was your experience with the polygraph one related to a pre-employment test (depending on the era you were hired in), or was it related to an I.A..  Was that / Were any; of those I.A.'s sustained ?  Further, given that you claim to still carry a badge, are you participating in this forum on tax payer time, or simply from home or off time ?
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #41 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 2:58am
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TheNoLieGuy4U wrote on Mar 13th, 2008 at 8:36pm:
    NoPolyCop,

  You asked: "NoLieGuy:

I am curious. Are you using government resources, (computer equipment) and are you on the clock when you are posting your messages to this board?"

My Response:  You may assume that I own my own computer, participate on my own free time, and that my opinions, thoughts, and deliberations are my own as an individual.  

May I ask you, was your experience with the polygraph one related to a pre-employment test (depending on the era you were hired in), or was it related to an I.A..  Was that / Were any; of those I.A.'s sustained ?  Further, given that you claim to still carry a badge, are you participating in this forum on tax payer time, or simply from home or off time ?


NoLieGuy:

I asked you a direct question so I would not have to presume, because if I presumed, then I would presume you are in fact using a govt. computer, on govt. time.  Afterall, no one has enough free time of their own to write the missives you write, I figured you gotta be getting paid for it.

I will answer your questions directly, even if you won't answer mine.  I have taken three polygraphs, all pre-employment. I was the victim of a false positive, which set the stage for my personal dislike of the polygraph exam process.  Since that first one, I took two others and was hired both times, which of couse means I passed.  I have also taken a CVSA and passed.

I no longer work for an LE agency on a paid basis, but volunteer my time on occasion, when needed.  Private employment pays more that public service, and I have done my time, 30 years worth.
  

"Although the degree of reliability of polygraph evidence may depend upon a variety of identifiable factors, there is simply no way to know in a particular case whether a polygraph examiner's Conclusion is accurate, because certain doubts and uncertainties plague even the best polygraph exams."  (Justice Clarence Thomas writing in United States v. Scheffer, 523 U.S. 303, 118 S.Ct. 1261, 140 L.Ed.2d 413, 1998.)
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #42 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 3:45am
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  nopolycop,

YOU WROTE:  "Afterall, no one has enough free time of their own to write the missives you write, I figured you gotta be getting paid for it."

  Thank You for your thirty years of service.  I am not currently working for any U.S. Gov. agency, and rather suffered a stroke a while back.  Therefore, as you might imagine, I still apply myself and work as best and how I can, but do have time on my hands.  While I might qualify in what we know as the "Americans with Disabilities Act", I am made of the same grit as you, drink my coffee black, and have cut back on most donuts.  Nobody is paying me to share my experiences and I too write from my heart.  That my experiences are different than yours is what this board is all about as the moderator would have us provide a macro view of who is out there, and what their polygraph experience(s) are.  Where we differ is only that you and others seek to ban all of this, while I want to raise the standard as to WHO does these tests.  The computer is neutral, and it is the human element which must be worked on / improved. BOTH the Examiner and the test subjects, but not by CM's ; rather by each applying themselves to plain Truth, and not rationalization / omission / or avoidance. 
  
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #43 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 3:55am
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Quote:
As for polygraphers' identities being disclosed here, it has only happened rarely, and has been the consequence of egregious bad behavior on their part, including deliberately spreading disinformation.


 
I think it is GOOD that polygraphers post here as it gives people lurking from the sidelines a chance to see what they are really like.  The more unreasonable they are the better!

"You can fool ALL of the people, SOME of the time.
You can fool SOME of the people, ALL of the time.
But you can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time."

Abraham Lincoln.
« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2008 at 5:45am by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: Al-Qaeda Has Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector
Reply #44 - Mar 14th, 2008 at 9:07am
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I will answer your questions directly, even if you won't answer mine.  I have taken three polygraphs, all pre-employment. I was the victim of a false positive, which set the stage for my personal dislike of the polygraph exam process.  Since that first one, I took two others and was hired both times, which of couse means I passed.  I have also taken a CVSA and passed.


How do you know you were "false positive" on your first test considering the fact that you failed?

How can you be sure you were telling the truth?  How could you be telling the truth without the polygrapher knowing?

Maybe you're going stark raving mad!

Or maybe you've just entered the

"POLYGRAPH ZONE"

Do do do do   do do do do




Maybe you've become an unwitting pawn of Al Qaeda and the evil forces of Osama, by trying to expose the pseudo-scientific underpinnings of the polygrapher mind.

  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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