Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Countermeasures (Read 26446 times)
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Countermeasures
May 15th, 2003 at 9:37pm
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Anal pucker
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tounge/lip biting
tack in the shoe (though not recommended)
Breathing countermeasures

What othercounter measures can one use to effect control questions? 

Sweat countermeasures?

What about taking St. John's Wart or Kava Kava to help "mellow" a person out before the test to keep the nerviousness down?

Any thoughts or advise on countermeasures not listed in "The Lie Behind the Lie Detector"
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #1 - May 17th, 2003 at 11:55am
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Scopolamine, an anticholinergic drug used in anti-nausea preparations for motion sickness, can suppress reactions on the electrodermal channel. It is conceivable that this might be helpful as a countermeasure to the Relevant/Irrelevant technique, to inhibit reactions to the relevant questions. But it might not be as helpful with the much more commonly used "Control Question Test."

I don't know about St. John's Wort or Kava Kava, but see the message thread meds to alter reactions for more on pharmaceutical countermeasures.
« Last Edit: May 18th, 2003 at 4:32pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #2 - May 17th, 2003 at 8:56pm
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George, is there no end to the vast amount of knowledge you profess to have about countermeasures?  That is especially amazing when you consider you have never used these countermeasures, and you have failed every question on every polygraph test you have ever taken.  What a pile of BULLSHIT!!
  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #3 - May 17th, 2003 at 9:07pm
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LOL!!!!

Another satisfied customer!!!
  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #4 - May 17th, 2003 at 9:24pm
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No, BS is no another "satisfied customer". No doubt just another dissatisfied polygrapher, upset that one day he/she won't be able to use their own BS on unsuspecting victims.
  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #5 - May 17th, 2003 at 10:29pm
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Quote:
George, is there no end to the vast amount of knowledge you profess to have about countermeasures?  That is especially amazing when you consider you have never used these countermeasures, and you have failed every question on every polygraph test you have ever taken.  What a pile of BULLSHIT!!


Since BS detector demands primary sources, I'll step in and reiterate that I used the behavioral, mental, and physical countermeasures as described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector. My polygrapher (who by his own account was a luminary in the field of 'forensic psycho-physiological detection of deception', or some similar gibberish) never knew what hit him-- just like any of these other bitter, bitter men who occassionally storm onto the boards declaiming everything here.
  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #6 - May 18th, 2003 at 2:21am
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bsdetector,

You wrote:
Quote:
George, is there no end to the vast amount of knowledge you profess to have about countermeasures?  That is especially amazing when you consider you have never used these countermeasures, and you have failed every question on every polygraph test you have ever taken.  What a pile of BULLSHIT!!


What precisely do you consider to be bullshit? Does it trouble you that George has significantly educated himself {possibly better than many DODPI trained polygraph examiners} on polygraph testing to include polygraph countermeasures? This is specifically what PhDs are supposed to do.

If this is the best independent assumption that you can come-up with, you should reconsider your position and attempt to refer us to your supporting reference materiel as George does consistently.

Simply because George has never employed polygraph countermeasures certainly does not preclude him from possessing extensive knowledgeable with regard to polygraph testing and countermeasures. This obviously does disturb many polygraphers on this board; however, I understand their displeasure.

Polygraph testing is flawed, unreliable, unethical and misleading. The methodology supporting polygraph testing as taught at DODPI School is riddled with deceit and trickery. Polygraph testing is without question vulnerable and susceptible to a vast array of polygraph countermeasures.

Like it or not, TLBTLD is accurately written, referenced and supported with irrefutable reference materiel one can research on their own.

Knowledge is power. The public has a right to know when they are being misled, tricked and scammed. This is without question, one of {if not the biggest} public flimflammery allowed and condoned by our very own government.

Polygraph testing should be stopped. Eventually, it will be.


triple x
  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #7 - May 18th, 2003 at 7:24am
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I was reading about Kava Kava and it is said to be a natural stress and anxiety reliever. Do you think that will have a positive or negitive effect on a control question type polygraph?   I am preparing for a polygraph test that I will have to take in the next month or so.  I have read TLBTLD and anything else I can find on the internet.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #8 - May 18th, 2003 at 4:31pm
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treetop,

I wouldn't expect a sedative to have much of an effect on the outcome of a CQT polygraph examination because it wouldn't be expected to differentially affect reactions to "control" versus relevant questions.

By the way, the fact that a substance is "natural" does not necessarily mean that it is either safe or effective. You might want to visit HerbalWatch.com and review the entries for Kava Kava and St. John's Wort (note spelling).
  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #9 - May 18th, 2003 at 4:39pm
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Quote:
George, is there no end to the vast amount of knowledge you profess to have about countermeasures?  That is especially amazing when you consider you have never used these countermeasures, and you have failed every question on every polygraph test you have ever taken.  What a pile of BULLSHIT!!


I have never claimed to possess unlimited knowledge about polygraph countermeasures. The knowledge I do have is based primarily on the open source polygraph literature (cited in the bibliography of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector), and not on any personal experience employing them.

Please tell me precisely what I have said or written regarding polygraph countermeasures that you believe to be "a pile of bullshit."
  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #10 - May 19th, 2003 at 1:13am
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George, you say, "I have never claimed to possess unlimited knowledge about polygraph countermeasures. The knowledge I do have is based primarily on the open source polygraph literature (cited in the bibliography of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector), and not on any personal experience employing them. "

So basically you are just giving your version of what you have read.  Why don't you cite your sources on your posts instead of acting like you have some sort of expertise of your own?  You really do try to mislead people into thinking you know much more than you do.  You demand honesty from the likes of Gelb, but you don't hold yourself to the same standard.  You are as much a fraud as he is.  Just another example of the arrogance that was probably one of the things that got you DQ'd from the FBI.  You really are a pompous ass.  It's a good thing they didn't give you a badge and a gun.
  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #11 - May 19th, 2003 at 1:37am
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Relax... countermeasures don't work anyway so quit worrying about who came up with them.
  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #12 - May 19th, 2003 at 3:07am
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"BSDETECTOR,"

I haven't attempted to mislead anyone about the extent of my knowledge, or how I have learned what I know. I do not think it is necessary to provide a source citation with every post I make on this message board (though I often do so).

Los Angeles polygraph operator Edward I Gelb claims to have a Ph.D. in psychology, although it seems that his degree is from an unaccredited diploma mill whose owner was sent to federal prison for fraud. I have made no such claim to credentials that I do not possess.

Again, please tell me precisely what I have said or written regarding polygraph countermeasures that you believe to be "a pile of bullshit."
  

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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #13 - May 19th, 2003 at 3:12am
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no_sugar_coating wrote on May 19th, 2003 at 1:37am:
Relax... countermeasures don't work anyway so quit worrying about who came up with them.


If countermeasures don't work, then why has Paul M. Menges, who teaches the countermeasures course for polygraphers at the Department of Defense Polygraph Institute, suggested that it should be a crime to make information about polygraph countermeasures publicly available?
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #14 - May 19th, 2003 at 8:52am
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No_Sugar,

I have to disagree with your statement about CM's not working, I used them, lied, and passed ALL of my polys without a problem. I am somewhat confused, you say you aren't a Polygraphist, yet you defend the poly. Just ask yourself "Why does the NAS (Probably some of the brightest scientific minds on the planet) say the polygraph is not a scientifically sound instrument for detecting lies?"

I would think a Police Officer would be more concerned with gathering facts before forming an opinion.

If you are not a polygraphist, why are you so concerned with defending it?

Just curious,

PK
  
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