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Re: Dont be bullied into CM's
Reply #60 - Dec 15th, 2003 at 10:04am
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HOWEVER, WHAT I HAVE A HARD TIME DIGESTING IS SOMEONE WITH NO RELEVANT ISSUES WHO IS BULLIED INTO BELIEVING THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PERFORM COUNTERMEASURES TO  'BEAT' A POLY.


Where on here did you see bullying occur? Also, why do you believe visitors to this site are led to believe that they do not have a choice? Imho, ap.org does an excellent job of providing information to those who may have to take a polygraph test so that they can make an informed choice for themselves as to whether or not they want to employ countermeasures.

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REGARDLESS OF THE 'MIS-INFORMATION', COUNTERMEASURES ARE DETECTED.  NEW TRAINING AND INTEGRATED MOVEMENT SENSORS ARE A BLESSING TO THE POLYGRAPH COMMUNITY.


Roll Eyes

Prove it.

Quote:
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE SUCCESSFULLY 'PASSED' THIS TEST WITHOUT TRYING TO 'BEAT' IT.

I WILL NEVER BE SO ARROGANT TO SUGGEST THEIR ARE NOT 'FALSE POSITIVES.'   HOWEVER, ALL DEPARTMENTS GIVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT TO THE EXAMINEE.  THEY HAVE TOO MUCH TIME AND RESOURCES INVESTED IN THE EXAMINEE TO NOT GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.


That is absolutely absurd. Many police departments will bounce applicants based solely on DI results obtained from the polygraph. I've also never heard of an applicant for a federal LE position being hired after failing a polygraph.


Quote:
UNFORTUNATELY, A SITE DEVELOPED BY A SELF-PURPORTED 'FALSE POSITIVE'  IS ALSO GIVING INFORMATION TO CHILD MOLESTORS ON HOW TO ACTIVELY 'BEAT' THEIR POLYGRAPHS.


What are you so worried about? Countermeasures are supposedly detectable, right?

Quote:
TO THOSE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE I WOULD SUGGEST YOU FOLLOW THE LEAD OF THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS BEFORE YOU AND AND 'PLAY ALONG' AND 'PLAY BY THE RULES.'


You advise them to 'play by the rules' even though they may face a significant risk of becoming a false positive? That doesn't seem like very good advice.

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REGARDLESS OF SOMEONE'S FEELINGS PRO OR CON POLYGRAPH WILL NOT GO AWAY UNTIL ANOTHER TECHNOLOGY REPLACES IT.


Even if that turns out to be true, it is hardly a good reason to abandon the fight to educate the general population on the inherent flaws that exist in polygraph testing.

  
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Re: Countermeasures
Reply #61 - Dec 15th, 2003 at 7:22pm
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Civil Servant

Here goes the stuck record again.

Under the present mind-set of most of the polygraph failures, you are probably correct that the polygraph is not going away. However, if every person who tells the truth, goes by your rules and still fails the poly would file individual lawsuits to make their polygraphers prove their assertians in a court of law, then there would not be time to give very many tests. From the posts that I read here, you would spend most of your time in the courtroom.

I will agree with you that are some very good sensors out there. I do not believe, though, any of them can differentiate between the anal squeeze and an uncontrolable nerve contraction.

I can greatly advance my BP and heart rate by picturing my falling from a high altitude airplane. You or no other person on God's green earth can read my mind. All you know is that you see a spike on you machine therefore, your "opinion" is countermeasure use. Unfortunately, the polygrapher's "opinion" controls. One person, one machine controlling the livelyhood of an applicant. In my "opinion" this is wrong and none of your countermeasure claims would hold up in a court of law.

If I was a polygrapher and could accurately detect countermeasures, I would tell all my examinees "If you are thinking about using countermeasures, I WILL catch this one this way and that one that way, etc., so COME ON DOWN. Don't you think that would deter the use?

As I have said before. I am for anything, polygraph, Zerox machine, water cooler. etc., that can extract a TRUE confession in a criminal case. In some cases I might even use a rubber hose.
  
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