Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs (Read 12980 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box GuestGhost
Guest


Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Sep 11th, 2017 at 10:41pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Hello,

I am writing with details on several polygraphs that I have passed in the last 30 days or so. I will not reveal any information that might identify me. 

The polygraphs were mandatory. Refusing to take them was not an option. 

I beat them. And I say "beat," because I had to lie on one of them. Here's how I did it.

- I read "TLBTLD" over and over again, especially chapters 3 and 4. The real breakthrough I had (and which I don't think the book or this community stresses enough) was really realizing that the polygraph is not a "lie detector." It is a reaction detector. In other words, if you're hooked up and they ask you "Was George Washington America's first President?" the machine will detect a reaction, if you give one. Reading TLBTLD over and over helped me understand that to pass, one must have greater detected reactions on "control / comparison" questions than to "relevant" questions. I know this is elementary knowledge, but it's probably the single most important thing to understand. 

- I was lucky enough to have advance notice of the polygraphs, so I practiced. I had a reasonable guess as to the format of the test (order of questions in particular). These were single-issue / related-issue tests. I will call them single-issue tests throughout this post, for ease of reading. There are a number of formats for such tests. I studied the more popular formats and read the literature on them extensively. That literature included how questions are formulated, what order questions will come, etc. So I practiced several versions, with a timer. 

- I chose to focus on mental countermeasures. I don't know what activity sensors can and can't detect, but in my own practice sessions, tongue-biting and the like just didn't seem to work. In addition, trying to employ physical pain countermeasures took away part of my focus. Plus, there is always a chance, however slight, that physical measures can be noticed. Mental countermeasures are not noticed. 

- I spent a great deal of time training my body to generate an adrenaline rush. Of course, I planned to use this rush every time I received a control question. This was not easy! Practice made perfect. It's a lot harder to scare yourself on command than you might think - especially when you're already amped up in the polygraph chair. You have to be able to crank it up on command. I spent hours training my body to respond. I took a very specific image in my mind - a first-person view of falling off a tall building, seeing the ground rush up at me, only for the ground to open up and reveal a bed of horrible metal spikes which impaled me - I took that image as my "trigger" image. I imagined the fall, the terror, and the horrific death from the spikes. It worked. My hands would get clammy, my heart would race, my breathing would change. 

- As mentioned, I did not use physical countermeasures at all. That said, there are certainly physical things I found useful, in my practice sessions. I don't really know how to describe this, but I found that while visualizing the gruesome fall above, it worked even better if I also tried to "push" my skull out of its skin. I didn't move my head or strain my neck at all - I checked in the mirror and I taped myself to make sure. But that's the best I can describe - while holding perfectly still, I tried to push my head bones forward. For whatever reason, this amplified the physical feedback from my mental countermeasure. 

- I knew I would need to calm down and produce few to no reactions on relevant questions. And old friend helped. To calm down, I pictured myself in a sunny backyard with my old friend. I created dialogue for us, running dialogue that would last 15-20 seconds. This is someone I haven't seen in a long time and miss a lot. I was happy to see them. They helped calm me down. I taught myself to look forward to relevant questions, because every time I got one, I would be seeing my friend again. I wouldn't be scared, I would be happy. 

- I practiced my breathing pattern for the test. In, out, in, out. I visualized a small, bright ball, travelling out from my mouth on my exhale, around in a small circle, and then back into my mouth on my inhale. Pleasing, calm, repettitive, easy. I practiced this breathing in the shower, in the car, in bed, at work, everywhere, until it became second nature. Once again, I followed TLBTLD, making sure I had about 15-30 respirations a minute, and that each one was more shallow than normal. 

TEST #1
Again, relying on TLBTLD, I arrived early, dressed neatly. I was polite and friendly with the polygrapher. We discussed the "single issue" I was there to be tested on. The tester was actually a genuinely friendly person. I understood that he was not there to be my friend, but it helped create a pleasant atmosphere. He explained the format of the test, and quite to my delight, it was in fact one of the formats I had practiced! Internally, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, as I now knew exactly when I would get a control question or a relevant question. 

In addition, this particular format uses control/comparison questions that are of similar nature (similar type of inquiry) to the relevant questions. Whether my good interactions with the polygrapher helped or not, he designed control questions that I actually sort feared! He was very good about discouraging admissions to these questions, and I knew enough not to clarify much, so the end result was that I wound up with a set of controls that I would genuinely be lying to. Again, I have no idea if my respectful and professional demeanor led the guy to craft "easier" questions - all I know is that it didn't hurt. 

It also helped that this test's relevant questions were ones that I was actually telling (almost all of) the truth on. So this was, in essence, a "practice run." I was still nervous, because failure would bring bad things. 

As soon as the straps went on, I went into the breathing mode I had practiced. No problem. The test began. I knew the order of the questions. I felt confident. There were no surprises. But...I was so nervous! My heart was racing. I had to focus on my breathing to keep it measured. The first control question was coming. I cleared my mind. It was asked. I pictured myself falling, horribly. I pushed at my skull. I could feel my hands moisten. I could feel my heart speed up, even faster than it was. It was working! I continued my reactions for several seconds, and then I knew I had to calm down. 

I went to the backyard with my old friend. We talked. It was sunny. It was peaceful. I interrupted our conversation to briefly answer "no" to the relevant question. Did my heart skip? Did my breath catch? Don't worry about it, I told myself - your friend is waiting. 

I passed the test. Passed easily. I was excited. My system worked! But next would come the real challenge.

TEST #2
Despite my success last time, this one scared me. On this one, it wouldn't be just a little tiny or semantic lie on the relevant questions. On this one, I would have to lie, through and through.

I was much more nervous this time. My hands shook as I drove. My heart was already racing. Nevertheless, I arrived early, and was outwardly calm. This polygrapher was different. Not nearly as friendly. However, he said he'd looked over my charts from last time. I didn't know what to make of this, but the last person passed me without a second thought, so I figured that was good. 

I was so nervous, but I remembered that I'd spent hours upon hours upon hours training for this. The test would be in the same format. I was as ready as I could possibly be. 

I realized that my heart was racing, but what was also important to realize was that it's ok if it raced - so long as it raced more on the control questions! So here we go again. I still felt much more nervous. The first time I had mostly told the truth. This time, I was not. Not even close. But I again pictured my horrible fall, and I again had time to sit and chat with my long-gone friend. I had to trust my prep. 

And at the end of the test, the polygrapher stood up, and matter-of-factly told me I had passed. 

So. This stuff works. I am living proof. But like anything in life, it takes practice, practice, practice. If I'd tried to prep the night before, I wouldn't be writing this. Only because I focused myself both on understanding what the box actually does, and how to manipulate the box, am I here talking to you. 

If you take one thing away from this, take that. It's a reaction detector. Nothing more, nothing less. So master your reactions (and I mean MASTER them), and you can pass. 

Good luck.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #1 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:21am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
GuestGhost, you definitely come across as a troll/plant/faker.

Here's your chance to prove me wrong.

To the best of your memory, what were the questions -- respectively speaking -- for tests one and two?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6232
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #2 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 5:16am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:21am:
GuestGhost, you definitely come across as a troll/plant/faker.

Here's your chance to prove me wrong.

To the best of your memory, what were the questions -- respectively speaking -- for tests one and two?


GuestGhost does not come across as a troll, plant, or faker to me. If his/her statement is indeed sincere, I think that for privacy reasons, it would be unwise for him/her to divulge the relevant questions asked.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #3 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
I taught myself to look forward to relevant questions, because every time I got one, I would be seeing my friend again.

Brilliant. 

This is a good lesson about what to select for your calming scenario -- not just something peaceful and unstressed, but something that you really wish you could do. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #4 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 12:49pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
...I had to lie on one of them.

This make Aunty sad. It is an example of how a socially valuable tool or technique can also be used for nefarious purposes. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #5 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 1:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on Sep 12th, 2017 at 5:16am:
GuestGhost does not come across as a troll, plant, or faker to me. If his/her statement is indeed sincere, I think that for privacy reasons, it would be unwise for him/her to divulge the relevant questions asked.


To me, GuestGhost's post lacks a certain something -- it just doesn't ring true. Maybe GG will post the CQs that were allegedly asked in this account of multiple mandatory polygraphs taking place over a 30-day period.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box GuestGhost
Guest


Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #6 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 5:34pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr. Mangan, I am not sure what part of my post seems to you to be a troll/plant/fake. I would be interested if you could point out where my descriptions and tactics differ from what TLBTLD recommends. 

I simply wished to share my experience, and let people know that TLBTLD is excellent. I also wanted people to know that countermeasures aren't easy, and take practice. 

I will not be posting the control questions, out of an abundance of caution. If that causes you to not believe me then I guess I will just have to be ok with that. 

A few notes, though:

- These tests were single/very related issue tests. Again, there are only so many formats for such tests, and with good research, literature and information on those formats can be found. Being able to memorize those formats, and being right about the formats made the tests much easier. If I did not know what the next type of question would be, I donnot know if I could have properly geared myself mentally for countermeasures or relaxation. Part of my confidence and abilities to pass these tests came from knowing exactly what was coming when.

If this had been an FBI employment type test, I donnot know if this type of preparation would have worked, nor would I have been as confident, as those are not single issue tests.

- I cannot say enough about how important my practice was. Although it may be extremely difficult to detect some physical countermeasures, it seems actually impossible to detect mental ones. Being able to produce physical reactions based solely on mental stimulus was not easy but it was essential. 

- Aunty, I understand your disappointment. Of course I cannot go further into detail and certainly there is no way to verify this, but I had no "nefarious purposes" in the lies I had to tell.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #7 - Sep 12th, 2017 at 6:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
GG, how did the examiners introduce the CQs to you during their respective pre-test portions of each polygraph? Tell us what the examiners said and how they described the role of the CQs vis-a-vis the RQs.

Describe the stimulation tests used for the two different polygraphs, and how they differed between examiners.

How many charts were used for each exam?

Did the examiners score manually or use an algorithm?

  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #8 - Sep 14th, 2017 at 12:23am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
And at the end of the test, the polygrapher stood up, and matter-of-factly told me I had passed.



Speaking as a polygraph operator with over 13 years of experience, this highly unlikely scenario strikes me as pure fiction.

Maybe GuestGhost will prove me wrong.

ROTFLMAO
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 441
Joined: Jun 5th, 2006
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #9 - Sep 16th, 2017 at 2:38pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan

Seems you spooked GuestGhost.   

  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #10 - Sep 17th, 2017 at 2:18am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
pailryder wrote on Sep 16th, 2017 at 2:38pm:
Seems you spooked GuestGhost.

I think "insulted" is much more accurate than "spooked".  If I ever submitted a post like GuestGhost's and all I got was a reaction like Dan's, I would simply not bother with the site any more, much less enter into a productive correspondence. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #11 - Sep 17th, 2017 at 2:46am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Insulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.

GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.

That said, polygraph countermeasure victories are probably at record levels these days -- thanks to the government's most public and vigorous prosecution of Doug Williams.

Beating a polygraph "test" is relatively easy, once you know the trick.

To believe otherwise is abject denial.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Aunty Agony
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 143
Joined: Aug 15th, 2011
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #12 - Sep 17th, 2017 at 5:07am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 2:46am:
Insulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out.

Possibly. But you offer no evidence for this. 

Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 2:46am:
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation.

Possibly. But you offer no evidence or convincing argument for this.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #13 - Sep 17th, 2017 at 12:29pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Aunty Agony wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 5:07am:
Dan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
Insulted? No, Aunty, that faker was likely found out. 
Possibly. But you offer no evidence for this.

Dan Mangan wrote Today at 2:46am:
GuestGhost's account was, in my professional opinion, pure mental masturbation. 
Possibly. But you offer no evidence or convincing argument for this.



Aunty, should GuestGhost return and post clear and compelling evidence that contradicts my opinions -- beginning by answering the questions I posted earlier -- I will admit my rush to judgment and sincerely apologize.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Doug Williams
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 284
Joined: Feb 15th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2017 at 4:21pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 2:46am:


That said, polygraph countermeasure victories are probably at record levels these days -- thanks to the government's most public and vigorous prosecution of Doug Williams.

Beating a polygraph "test" is relatively easy, once you know the trick.

To believe otherwise is abject denial.


Well said Dan – it should be noted that they prosecuted me for doing something that they had previously said was impossible for me to do - teach someone how to "beat" the "lie detector".  And, I have always maintained that if I can teach a person to "beat" it, that proves the polygraph is absolutely worthless as a "lie detector". 
  

I have been fighting the thugs and charlatans in the polygraph industry for forty years.  I tell about my crusade against the insidious Orwellian polygraph industry in my book FALSE CONFESSIONS - THE TRUE STORY OF DOUG WILLIAMS' CRUSADE AGAINST THE ORWELLIAN POLYGRAPH INDUSTRY.  Please visit my website POLYGRAPH.COM and follow me on TWITTER @DougWilliams_PG


Doug Williams
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Recent, detailed - passed multiple polygraphs

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X