Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sexual History Poly - need advice! (Read 9994 times)
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #15 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 8:22pm
Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 7:07pm:
Quote:
Butt grabbing and vaginal penetration? Apples and oranges.

Not to the victim.


You spoke to every victim of both types of crimes, of every age, socioeconomic standing, in every region, where the crimes were commited under all types of different circumstances by offenders of every age, socioeconomic standing, in every region (so forth and so on), and made a comparison based on statistical analysis , or even common sense?

Your statement is pure hyperbole. Hyperbole has no place in a logical argument, and only feeds the witch-hunt mentality.

We can go by what victims report, not what the media machine tells us what to believe. Even victims of the same crime, committed at the very same time, report different reactions or feelings about their experience. Victims of violent rape report less impact on their lives than victims of inappropriate touch do, at times. Personal experience is subjective. In my scenario, if the 'butt touch' victim had nightmares and such, it would have an impact on the perpetrator's sentence - that is why they take victim impact statements, and use them for sentencing purposes. If a violent rape victim refused to make a statement, didn't need counseling, and just wanted to put the crime behind him/her, it would make it's way into the sentencing hearing - as a mitigating factor for the defense, and the perpetrator could/would receive a lighter sentence. These are the realities of american jurisprudence.

And Mr. Polygraph, I apologize. Kudos to you for your honesty to your clients... but if you feel the way you do, why choose to administer polygraphs? Curiosity gets the best of me, sometimes.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #16 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 8:39pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Your statement is pure hyperbole. Hyperbole has no place in a logical argument, and only feeds the witch-hunt mentality.

In all of your verbose ramblings, you never once mentioned the trauma you caused your step daughter by your sexual assault which you minimize as "butt grabbing." Your lack of victim empathy shows you are indeed a dangerous individual. The judge saw through you and gave you an appropriate sentence.

The purpose of this website is not to assist sex offenders to utilize countermeasures to beat the system or circumvent treatment and monitoring. I hope you take Dan's advice to take your treatment seriously.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #17 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 9:38pm
Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 8:39pm:
Quote:
Your statement is pure hyperbole. Hyperbole has no place in a logical argument, and only feeds the witch-hunt mentality.

In all of your verbose ramblings, you never once mentioned the trauma you caused your step daughter by your sexual assault which you minimize as "butt grabbing." Your lack of victim empathy shows you are indeed a dangerous individual. The judge saw through you and gave you an appropriate sentence.

The purpose of this website is not to assist sex offenders to utilize countermeasures to beat the system or circumvent treatment and monitoring. I hope you take Dan's advice to take your treatment seriously.


I am not an offender. That is hardly the point at this point. I have, and do, work with offenders.

I offered up a scenario that has elements of bits and parts of various offenders I have encountered and worked with. I can't use anyone's complete case; to do so would be unethical. I wanted feedback on a specific issue, basically trying to double-check a premise with a group of people that I typically find to be knowledgeable on polygraph issues. Instead, I got extremist ramblings, hyperbole, cynicism, ridicule, and opinion instead of fact.

When someone feels backed into a corner, they lash out. I get that, as I understand the psychology behind it. No one has done anything to refute my statements of truth, however... interesting, when you look at everything said in this thread in its proper context. Because you thought/think I was/am an offender, you attacked me, instead of trying to use logic and facts to argue a logical point.Question yourself as to why that is, and why you instantaneously think negative of people who have committed sex offenses. In my professional opinion (and I occupy a position in which I offer up professional, licensed opinions), you need to do some soul-searching, and figure out why you have such a negative opinion of offenders. Someone close to you a victim, perhaps? Or, maybe even yourself? You latched on to the victim impact aspect like a rabid dog, and quickly formed a hard and fast response to that, and one that defies common sense and logic. Psychologically, that is very telling.

Also, nowhere in my scenario did the offender try to circumvent or 'beat' the polygraph. A misstatement by you. The scenario offender was truthful, and was merely avoiding a false-positive by using mental stimulation. How is that deemed nefarious? I guess everyone who peruses this site are doing so with ill intent, then... or is that just limited to people with sex offenses on their records? What's good for the goose, and all that...

Please respond, if you are going to, with the logical portion of your brain, instead of the 'emotional' you.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #18 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:08pm
Print Post  
Quote:
I am not an offender.


Dan was correct. You are a troll. This conversation is over.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 614
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #19 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:15pm
Print Post  
And Mr. Polygraph, I apologize. Kudos to you for your honesty to your clients... but if you feel the way you do, why choose to administer polygraphs? Curiosity gets the best of me, sometimes.

I do what I do because there is a clear need for what I call open-book polygraph "testing."

The open-book model refers not only to my dealings with the test subjects themselves, but with secondary consumers of polygraph "testing" such as therapists, probation/parole officers, chiefs of police, and, of course, suspicious spouses or significant others.

That said, a considerable (and expanding) part of my practice is pure consulting, as opposed to simply administering examinations.

I hope to eventually transition to an all-consulting polygraph business model.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #20 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:24pm
Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:08pm:
Quote:
I am not an offender.


Dan was correct. You are a troll. This conversation is over.


Obviously, I touched a nerve point with you. Too close to home, perhaps? Or did I merely reach a point where you have to exit the conversation because you literally have nothing on which to counter logic and truth with?

I believe it is the former, but it is probably the latter. The fact that I am not an offender now works against me? So, what... you don't like anybody, then? were you more comfortable attacking me when you thought, in your distorted view, that I was lesser than you by being an offender?

I still want to know if my loophole idea to get polygraph results through family court proceedings for DOC offenders taking sexual history polygraphs has merit. There is literally no law on this, and I or those that work for or with me could be blazing a very important trail here. This could have system-wide consequences, possibly changing the way PCSOT examiners operate, or opening a door in which post conviction polygraphs are finally subject to independent review. Please, logical arguments, here


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #21 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:33pm
Print Post  
I exit the conversation because you are a liar and a troll.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #22 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:34pm
Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:15pm:
And Mr. Polygraph, I apologize. Kudos to you for your honesty to your clients... but if you feel the way you do, why choose to administer polygraphs? Curiosity gets the best of me, sometimes.

I do what I do because there is a clear need for what I call open-book polygraph "testing."

The open-book model refers not only to my dealings with the test subjects themselves, but with secondary consumers of polygraph "testing" such as therapists, probation/parole officers, chiefs of police, and, of course, suspicious spouses or significant others.

That said, a considerable (and expanding) part of my practice is pure consulting, as opposed to simply administering examinations.

I hope to eventually transition to an all-consulting polygraph business model.


That is very unique, and admirable, considering the far-reaching consequences polygraphs have on those subjected to them. You are right to consider the needs of secondary consumers. It also explains your very obvious - and very vocal - presence on this site.

The strange thing is, the other professionals I run into don't often know the actual limitations of the polygraph 'test'. Honestly, I could probably throw some work your way on the consulting aspect. You are a little too far away to send actual clients to, I am afraid... but if what you say about your practice is true, I would. You are a rare bird.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #23 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:40pm
Print Post  
Ex Member wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:33pm:
I exit the conversation because you are a liar and a troll.


I have lied about nothing, though I admit I did present myself as an offender in the beginning, for purely legitimate logistical  reasons. Other than that, I was - and am - seeking validation and/or information on a pet theory I have that pertains to a situation I came across in the course of my duties. If you have anything to add to that, please, use your knowledge base to assist me. You are a long-standing member of these boards, and a respected one, at that. If you have nothing to add, then peace be with you.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 614
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #24 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:42pm
Print Post  
The strange thing is, the other professionals I run into don't often know the actual limitations of the polygraph 'test'.

In my opinion, most of them know. They just don't want to face the truth about the "test."

Ironic, no?
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Member
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 710
Joined: Dec 9th, 2012
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #25 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:45pm
Print Post  
Quote:
I have lied about nothing, though I admit I did present myself as an offender in the beginning


"I used to be extremely indecisive, but now I'm not quite so sure."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 614
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #26 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:58pm
Print Post  
Ark v. troll

Good times.

If only we could get some high-profile American Polygraph Association PCSOT heavyweights to chime in on MagicSteve's original post and the resulting thread...
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #27 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 1:15pm
Print Post  
Dan Mangan wrote on Jan 7th, 2016 at 10:58pm:
If only we could get some high-profile American Polygraph Association PCSOT heavyweights to chime in on MagicSteve's original post and the resulting thread...


I know this is off topic, but when I saw the word 'heavyweights', I thought of WWE - type wrestlers... who perpetuate falsehood. The comparison to polygraph examiners, and their chosen profession, is accurate. I don't believe it gets anymore 'fake' than polygraphs and the people who administer them.

I don't believe that PCSOT examiners - or any examiner, save Mr. Mangan - would chime in. Whatever they have to say probably wouldn't be very relevant, considering they have to hold on dearly to one point of view. They are pretty invested in the lie. Hard to have civil discourse when you hold a rigid point of view.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MagicSteve
Guest


Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #28 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 1:57pm
Print Post  
Quote:
[quote author=70435A59505F56545D425A310 link=1452091113/21#21 date=1452206026]I exit the conversation because you are a liar and a troll.

Troll (according to the urban dictionary):

'One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevance to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.'

For the record, I was unaware of the popular definition of troll until I decided to look it up. I assumed you thought I lived under a bridge and collected tolls or something of that nature...

Improper usage of the word Troll. I did absolutely none of that. Also, strange that the definition refers to males exclusively as being trolls, which is neither here nor there.

I am curious to know why you felt it was necessary to attack a position you know little about with troll-like attacks. I am serious here. Once you assumed that I was an offender, you quit listening, became buddy-buddy with Dan in your incorrect assessment that I was an 'egocentric' child molester, and simply went into attack mode. Why was that? That is a serious question. You quit listening the second you thought you were dealing with someone convicted of a sex offense.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dan Mangan
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 614
Joined: Jul 31st, 2014
Re: Sexual History Poly - need advice!
Reply #29 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 1:58pm
Print Post  
Don't give up hope, MagicSteve. Over the years this site has enjoyed many spirited and meaningful discussions with members of the polygraph indu$try. Maybe word will get out about this thread and we'll be pleasantly surprised...
« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2016 at 12:51am by Dan Mangan »  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 
Send TopicPrint
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo