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American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke (Read 105674 times)

Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #60 - Jul 3^rd, 2015 at 10:54pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Yes, Wandersmann, it is serious. I'm sure the APA will provide you with an electronic copy of their May/June magazine if you ask. The prayer can be found on pages 44-45.


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Dedicated to Truth Guest	APA Board Conpires to Limit Eligibility for Elections and International Influence Reply #61 - Jul 4^th, 2015 at 11:04am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dear Fellow APA Members, Election week begins tomorrow, July 5th. As you vote, you should know that our Board of Directors is against Dan Mangan's candidacy and is re-writing our Bylaws to prevent him and others in his position from ever running for President in the future. A working draft of the new APA Bylaws includes the following highlighted change: Quote: 5.1 Nominations of President Elect. Any Member qualified under Article III to hold APA elected office and who has served during the two previous years on the Board of Directors may have his or her name appear on the ballot if nominated by at least one (1) voting Member. A voting Member may self-nominate. The nomination shall be made in writing and submitted to the APA’s National Office at least ninety (90) days prior to the commencement of the APA annual seminar. Any form of written communication (e.g., electronic, facsimile, etc.) is acceptable, provided the communication can be authenticated, if necessary. A comment on the draft by Walt Goodson states "The consensus of the BOD seems to support requiring the president-elect to be a prior director." There is talk of limiting the requirement to one year, and not two, and of adding a requirement that anyone seeking election to the BOD must have attended the previous annual seminar. The BOD is also afraid of an international takeover of the Association and is planning on excluding non-US citizens from becoming Members of the Board. While the current draft allows up to two BOD members to be non-US citizens: Quote: 4.5 International Composition of the Board of Directors. At no time may more than two (2) Directors positions be held by a person who is not a citizen of the United States of America. The Official Language of the APA is English and official correspondence must be in English. The official National Office for the APA must be in the continental United States (CONUS) with at least one annual meeting held in a CONUS location that is attended by a quorum. All Directors must agree and be capable of traveling to CONUS locations for all Board meetings. The banking institution holding the funds for the APA must also be in a CONUS location. The provisions in 4.5 may not be changed except by a three fourths (3/4) majority vote of the general membership. see the comment in the margin by APA General Counsel Gordon Vaughan: Quote: ISSUE DISCUSSED AND UNRESOLVED BY BOD. RAY NELSON TO DRAFT PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT NO OFFICER MAY BE NON-US CITIZEN. NO LEGAL IMPEDIMENT TO THIS PROVISION PER RICH BARR. GORDON HAS INCLUDED AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THIS PROVISION A PROVISION THAT BUSINESS OF THE BOD WILL BE CONDUCTED IN ENGLISH. So International Members are to be considered Second Class Members. Several members of the BOD make money giving polygraph training outside the U.S. and encourage their students to join APA. This draft shows what the BOD really thinks of them: happy to take their money, but unwilling to let them have any real influence on the Association. Happy 4th of July, everyone!

	BYLAWS_-_6-27_draft_Dutton___1_chuck__George__Oburke__Goodson__nelson_.doc ( 141 KB \| Downloads )
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Dan Mangan Guest	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #62 - Jul 4^th, 2015 at 4:39pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Quote: Election week begins tomorrow, July 5th. As you vote, you should know that our Board of Directors is against Dan Mangan's candidacy and is re-writing our Bylaws to prevent him and others in his position from ever running for President in the future. I cannot think of a better endorsement for my candidacy. Members, please join me in giving the APA's industry-insider white-bread establishment the swift kick in the ass it so richly deserves. Elections start tomorrow. Cast your vote for progressive leadership, critical thinking, and fearless independence -- not for more jingoistic protectionism, insular 1950s groupthink, and good ol' boy patronage. Please vote for Dan Mangan, APA president-elect.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #63 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 12:59pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Incredibly, the American Polygraph Association's week-long electronic election -- scheduled to begin yesterday at 0100 hours EDT -- has failed to launch. According to Don Krapohl, the APA's election coordinator -- a "software glitch" seems to be the problem. Further, a speedy remedy may be compromised due to an extended July 4th holiday weekend. For some years now the APA's electronic election process has gone off with nary a hitch. But this time around... Polygraph operators are often suspicious and cynical. (I know I can be that way.) The timing of this particular "glitch" indeed seems suspect. Once launched, says Krapohl, the election cycle will still run its full course. In any event, it gives additional time for each side to motivate the electorate. So, the circus continues.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #64 - Jul 6^th, 2015 at 4:15pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The aforementioned problem has been solved, it appears. APA electronic elections are under way. My sincerest thanks to Don Krapohl for straightening things out.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #65 - Jul 12^th, 2015 at 3:05am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	A special note to APA international members... Electronic voting for American Polygraph Association officers ends at 12 noon (Eastern Standard Time in the USA) on Monday, July 13th. Please help me put an end to the proposed hegemony, favoritism and seemingly guaranteed American (predominately white) privilege the APA appears to be determined to maintain. Nationalistic superiority, discrimination, and virtual ethnic cleansing have no place in polygraph in today's world. Of course, that's only my personal opinion, but I'm just one lowly polygraph operator who is trying to make a difference. For more information about the APA's board of directors' strange and dangerous ideas -- again, that's only my opinion -- to limit international influence, please visit this link: https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2015/07/06/american-polygraph-association-seeks-t... My international brothers and sisters, this is 2015. We are ONE people. A vote for me, Daniel Mangan, as APA president-elect, is a vote for APA member EQUALITY. Let's stand together on this. Thank you for your support. Dan Mangan Full Member, American Polygraph Association Certified PCSOT Examiner Certified Graduate, Backster School of Lie Detection (PE166) Candidate for APA President-Elect


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Election Results Guest	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #66 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 1:19am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	APA Election Results 2015 President-Elect  Votes Percentage Daniel Mangan J. 154 28% Patrick O'Burke 394 72% VP Law Enforcement  Votes Percentage Daniel Violette 472 100% Vice President Private Votes Percentage Gary Davis 468 100% Director 1 Votes Percentage James Mc Cloughan 484 100% Director 3 Votes Percentage George Baronowski 318 60% Brian Morris 208 40% Director 5 Votes Percentage Steve Duncan 321 60% William Fleisher 212 40%


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Evan S Senior User Offline Posts: 68 Joined: Dec 22^nd, 2007	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #67 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 1:39am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Counting the number of total votes for President of the APA, we arrive at the number 548. Less for the other offices. APA's website states their total membership is 2800. So the voter turnout is only 19.57%. It would seem that only about 1 in 5 APA members are interested in voting for their leaders. What exactly is the purpose of APA, and what benefits do its members receive? (Other than having membership appear on their business cards.)


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #68 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 12:42pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	The results of the race for American Polygraph Association president-elect speak for themselves. Votes cast for Pat O'Burke: 394 Votes cast for Dan Mangan: 154 My message is resonating with more than a quarter (28%) of the APA members who voted. That's significant. Voter turnout was up a little bit -- about 10% over last year's dismal turnout, when I received 15% of the votes for president-elect. It's modest progress to be sure, but at least the numbers are trending upwards. Meanwhile, the APA's collective mindset appears to be caught in a time warp of sorts, at least in my opinion. Last week, I attended a three-day seminar sponsored by the Maine Polygraph Association and endorsed by the APA. Here are a few highlights... o APA past president Jack Consigli presented data placing polygraph accuracy at 98%. [The information was from a 1997 report, which the APA sold on its web site for about 15 years.] o Officials from the Texas Department of Safety presented information placing accuracy of the Directed Lie Screening Test at 86%. o APA president Raymond Nelson -- who represented himself to the audience as a "scientist" -- displayed a bar chart suggesting that the NAS report of 2002 places polygraph accuracy at 86%. o APA president Nelson then presented recently assembled data that places polygraph accuracy at approximately 90%. o Nelson also claimed that polygraph testing is not biased against the innocent. o F. Lee Bailey waxed eloquently about the virtues of polygraph testing -- recounting amazing feats of lie detection going back to the 1950s -- and spoke enthusiastically about polygraph's bright future. So, the beat goes on. I will continue to fight for truth, honesty and accountability within the polygraph profession in general and the American Polygraph Association in particular. Also, I hereby declare my candidacy in next year's race for president-elect of American Polygraph Association -- if I'm permitted to run, that is. Finally, I give my sincerest thanks to those 150+ courageous APA members who voted for me. They are indeed "dedicated to truth."
	« Last Edit: Jul 14^th, 2015 at 2:36pm by Dan Mangan »

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Evan S Senior User Offline Posts: 68 Joined: Dec 22^nd, 2007	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #69 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 3:02pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan: I think you would have made a fine president of the APA. The problem is the polygraph establishment and their inflexible mindset. Regarding the polygraph accuracy percentages, I've seen numbers from the low eighties to the high nineties. This lack of consistency is deplorable from the scientific viewpoint. In fact, there are two accuracy rates: the percentage of innocent subjects that correctly pass the polygraph, and the percentage of guilty subjects that correctly fail the polygraph. As the threshold is changed (composite numerical score, something between about plus/minus 20), one accuracy percentage increases but the other percentage necessarily decreases, and vice versa. In other words, a tradeoff must be established. Do you set the threshold to minimize false negatives at the expense of increasing false positives, or the other alternative? I see no reason that the threshold be set to equalize the two accuracy rates. And how do you deal with the issue of a very small base rate (less than 1 in about 1000 or so)? Regards, Evan S


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Ex Member God Member Offline Posts: 710 Joined: Dec 9^th, 2012	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #70 - Jul 30^th, 2015 at 12:53am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Raymond, I would again like to emphasize that it would be great if you could be a regular poster on this forum. I think it's time for everyone to stop being so adversarial and have some candid discussions about polygraphy.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #71 - Jul 31^st, 2015 at 1:34am	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Ark, don't hold your breath. From what I've seen, most of the influential "dedicated to truth" polygraph indu$try rainmakers have nothing but contempt for this site. The last thing they want to do, in my view, is further legitimize it by virtue of their presence. (Odd, considering that A-P is clearly the world's most authoritative polygraph web site.) Otherwise, in my most humble opinion, they'd be here to discuss the weighty issues surrounding the "test". My take: The APA bigs prefer to dodge the tough questions, especially about their research methods. Why the resistance? Good question. My hunch is they have precious little to offer in terms of sound scientific methodology. But maybe they'll prove me wrong. [cue crickets]
	« Last Edit: Jul 31^st, 2015 at 12:42pm by Dan Mangan »

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Wandersmann Very Senior User Offline Posts: 228 Joined: Jun 2^nd, 2015	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #72 - Aug 1^st, 2015 at 7:29pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Jul 31^st, 2015 at 1:34am: Why the resistance? Good question. My hunch is they have precious little to offer in terms of sound scientific methodology. But maybe they'll prove me wrong. Bingo Dan. They have nothing to offer and they seek power and money. The majority of the polygraphers and polygraph supporting administrators in our government agencies are absolutely no better than the KGB or East German STASI. It is true that our polygraphers do not keep people awake for days and keep their victims locked in a tiny cell between interrogation sessions (only because they aren't allowed to do so), but the actual mental torture and permanent negative consequences to an innocent victim is every bit the same. What a terrible stain on the noble efforts of the rest of our intelligence and law enforcement community.


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Dan Mangan God Member Offline Posts: 652 Joined: Jul 31^st, 2014	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #73 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 3:52pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Wandersmann, from what I've seen, polygraph continues to be BS (belief system) based. It is far closer to a religious cult than it is to a hard science, in my opinion. For example, the American Polygraph Association claims average accuracy for incident-specific exams is 89%. However, their research, to the best of my knowledge, does not encompass across-the-board randomness of examiner expertise, which varies widely. Further, the APA's research does not include a vigorous countermeasure component. In light of those two fatal shortcomings, I'd say that real-world polygraph accuracy is far closer to 59% than it is to the APA's claim of 89%. As for the government's use of polygraph, it seems clear that their security-oriented "war footing" mentality trumps concerns over collateral damage. For example, we see the same justification in drone strikes targeting high-value targets. Innocents are often sacrificed in order to get the bad guy. Save for the blood and guts, the same overall dynamics are at play in the gummint polygraph suite.


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Wandersmann Very Senior User Offline Posts: 228 Joined: Jun 2^nd, 2015	Re: American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke Reply #74 - Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 4:19pm	Mark & Quote Quote Print Post
	Dan Mangan wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2015 at 3:52pm: As for the government's use of polygraph, it seems clear that their security-oriented "war footing" mentality trumps concerns over collateral damage. For example, we see the same justification in drone strikes targeting high-value targets. Innocents are often sacrificed in order to get the bad guy. Save for the blood and guts, the same overall dynamics are at play in the gummint polygraph suite. You are right on the money Dan. Collateral damage has always been a part of war. What is incredible in this case is that the collateral damage includes almost exclusively our heroes. Imagine being in the trenches, being wounded, offering your life for your country, surviving, and then coming home to lose a job with the government you protected because of an "inconclusive" on a polygraph. The above described situation has occurred and I personally know at least one of the people to whom it happened. *It is unconscionable.* I can not think of any other time in history that such horrific betrayal has occurred. I've only seen it in James Bond movies when the bad guy sacrifices his loyal henchmen while calmly petting his cat.


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American Polygraph Association Elections: Race for president-elect pits Daniel Mangan against Patrick O'Burke

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