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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE (Read 111851 times)
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #15 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 7:14pm
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I might add that I have studied federal law for almost 20 years. This includes every statute from the 1st. through the 14th. amendment.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #16 - Mar 14th, 2014 at 2:49am
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I need to get this off my chest, so here it goes.

I took the Border Patrol written test in 2010 and passed. I didn't hear anything from them until Nov 2012. I flew to El Paso for the Oral boards, and passed. The next phase was the medical, in which i'm still beating myself up about.  leading up to this, all I heard from people was "you have to be totally honest about everything." so on the medical forms, it asks about medication taken in the past.  I was prescribed Ritalin a few years back after my Father died after I turned down anti-depressants. it was a tough time for me but I stopped taking it because it wasn't doing anything for me.  I was simply thinking of Medicine that was still in my house and I listed the Ritalin. I then received a letter from the Medical devision demanding that I send a letter from my Doctor clearing me for the position which I sent them. The next demand from them, was for me to pay $1,500 to take a special Police Psych exam and submit that to them. This whole thing was starting to get blown out of proportion.   I took the exam and received a "fit for duty" status. After submitting that to the med division, I received a letter stating that they "don't think it would be safe for me to become an agent." I am devastated and I can't seem to get over it. I was so close to getting my dream job and these people think I'm crazy.  I't bothers me that these guy's can play God and ruin your life.  I'm trying to figure out some sort of recourse.  Any advice would be helpful>
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #17 - Sep 24th, 2014 at 1:43am
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OMG It's as if I wrote the original post. This was EXACTLY my experience. the same change in personality, the same question I failed on the same!! So strange to read as if I had written it Odd!!
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #18 - Feb 11th, 2015 at 5:23am
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This also happened to me it's† bullshiit† Kiss Tongue

This post has been edited to delete an apparently unintentionally attached file. -- AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
« Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2015 at 7:08am by Administrator »  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #19 - Jul 20th, 2015 at 4:51am
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U.S. Customs and Border Protection                                          7-1-2015
FOIA Appeals, Policy and Litigation Branch
90 K Street, NE, 10th Floor
Washington, DC 20229-1177
To: Whom may concern:                                                            This is an appeal for administrative closure of FOIA request CBP-2015-032950
     I have written a two part description for this appeal one is for the way I was treated and this one will be on the final results you guys rated me after I already wrote the first part. I was disqualified from continuing with the process of becoming a Border Patrol Agent because I did not pass your polygraph. If I did not pass your polygraph why did the examiner keep me there longer than it was needed as if I were a criminal and being interrogated?  I told her the truth and the examiner insisted that I, ďTell the truth so we can move with your process. Let me help you, donít you want to be a Border Patrol Agent?Ē I then replied ďI took the test four times. Doesnít that show I really want to be a Border Patrol Agent?Ē She was very manipulative. Is that what you guys stand for a manipulative agency? If I failed then I failed do no waste any more time than it has.  I have told the examiner 100% of the truth and personal stories that I have not shared with anyone else. I have complied with everything you all asked of me so who are you guys to say I am not qualified for your job? I served this country and didnít need a ridiculous polygraph to allow me to do so. I was a Marine for 9 Ĺ year and Iím currently in the Air Force.
The results I received advised me that I failed because I revealed that I smoked weed once in high school which was around more than 10 years ago.  Iíve already disclosed that information on the first part of the application process and also on the e-qip. I should also add that I have disclosed that in my military records and every other job that I have worked and applied for in the past. I have improved my life in those 10 years and not touched a single illegal drug because Iíve joined the military, had other jobs and received my Bachelorsí in Criminal Justice. It would be pointless to obtain that kind of degree while living a life of crime. You guys invited me to take your written exam because I was qualified according to the requirements that was stated in the announcement but disqualify me on something that shouldnít have disqualified me in the first place.  I feel like Iíve been slapped by my own government after risking my life in overseas. The U.S government is discriminating against veterans with this polygraph process. There is no need for me to tell your polygraph examiner about how horrible my life was as a kid. I donít know what you guys are going to do with my case but I hope it can get fixed soon. Your polygraph system was malfunctioning that day and I was told by three different agents about it. The polygraph is not even accurate and it cannot even be used in court due to not being 100% accurate so it shouldnít be used for pre-employment especially at the U.S government level. With all my respect I really hope you guys can fix this issue.
Very Respectfully,
  

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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #20 - Jul 21st, 2015 at 6:03am
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here it is
  

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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #21 - Apr 18th, 2016 at 5:14pm
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I had the same experience and I can relate. However I did not spend thousands of dollar but I spent a few hundred for travelling and hotel because I choose to do the VBT in Miamia rather than NY which was my error. I did pass all levels up until the schedule of my polygraph. I must say My exmainer did the exact same thing. I am afican american and I was qualified for GS7 so I already had a disadvantage because of my color. He greeted me and this was a caucasian examiner blue eyes bald head. We got into the room he began to start a regular convo as mentioned that I shouldnt be nervous and all these other bs about he can tell if I was cheating by usind thumb tack under my shoes, or garlic under my tongue etc. He strapped the machine on me then asked me to repeat several questions over and over for about a hour or two. Then he told me I was 98% passed and that there is 2% of information he needs to ask of me without be being connected to the machine. He started asking me was there anything else I did that I never got caught for. Mind you I already told me I was arrested 3 times one for suspended license, other for resisting to show a cop my drivers license and the other for dsorderly conduct. I then responded saying I have nothing else to tell you but I can tell he felt offended. He began to say I think you are lying about something that you did and was never arrested for such as, killing someone and burry them in my back yard, lying about smoking pot 3 times in my entire life, or aiding a family member who had entered the U.S. illegally. I told him none of those are true and he continues to tell me that I am lying about something. He started to say that he can help me If I told him the truth and referred to me as " my brother be real with me" I can help you if you just tell me. I told him again that whatever infomation you have thats everything that I did. He said we gonna sit here until you tell me the truth then he told me take a break. I came back after the 15 min break then he said you thought of soemthign on your break that you never mentioned? I responded by saying no I did not. He continued to plead with me to tell a lie on myself saying you are this close to passing and I want to pass you but I think you are disclosing information. After trying and trying to get me to agree with him he realized that I wasn't going to fall into his trap. He said you have to do this for your kids and tell the truth. I said I am doing this for my daughters by telling you that there is nothing else about me to find out. He then said this concludes the exam and the resulf is not up to me. He will forward my information back to washington and they will reply back in 2 weeks with a decision. I did receive a decision in 2 weeks but it said I failed the polygraph. Now I never felt so cheated in my life for something that I honestly worked so hard for. Because of that I contacted HR and asked if I could appeal then said there was no appeal. I took the exama again 3 year after than and passed but was unable to continue because they have it in the database that I failed the polygraph within the 3 years limit.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #22 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 1:59pm
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Twoblock wrote on Dec 30th, 2013 at 7:09pm:
Doug,

I have posted this, on this type of info, on this site starting years ago. I tried, in vain, to get someone who had failed their poly to file a federal complaint. I even offered to help with their brief if they wanted to file pro se. No takers. However, now that crook Holder is A.G., these cases must be argued before a federal jury. NOT A FEDERAL JUDGE. Not being a BAR lawyer, I cannot argue a case. If I could, I would win one of these. I have won ADA - Sec. 504 Rehab. Act lawsuits (my specialty) before and wasn't able to argue the case. All these things require is: KNOWLEDGE AND GUTS.

I'm surprised that Mark Zaid didn't pick up on my posts. However, lawyers don't think they need advice. He lost.



I really do wish that some attorney would come by this website and for once, do the right thing. 
Thank you for your  Due-diligence and to everyone here trying to help. 

I've been reading here for years, and yet, to date, nothing in the U.S. has been done, and lives are literally being ruined due to this outrageous and illegal process being used. 

  
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CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #23 - Apr 29th, 2016 at 5:48pm
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  It's amazing how many of us share the same experiences.  I am 28 yrs old, served proudly as a Marine and also failed my polygraph exam with Boder Patrol.  I honestly could not sleep for a week maybe a month thinking of how much of a failure I was.  I remember going into the polygraph exam office, greeting the agent who administered the exam, he was so friendly at first but after my first test, he started to get angry, calling me a liar.  The question i failed and till this day i don't know why is if i ever used or abused any type of illegal drugs? I honestly answered NO but somehow I was lying.  It was so hard for me to accept failing for something I did not do.  Before my BPA experience i was the type of person who believed in doing the right thing even when you thought noone was watching you.  Kept a good clean driving record, avoided any type of trouble, and was always making my self competitive and a good candidate for any law enforcement branch.  Got myself some good experiences while in the marines and i was ready and motivated to further my career and commitment to this country.  Like most of you i passed everything with no problem at all but the polygraph.  Made everything i worked for useless.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #24 - May 16th, 2016 at 4:50pm
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George W. Maschke,
I had a similar experience with CBP. I applied for the CBPO position on both the 2012 and 2013 job announcements. I am a disabled veteran as well. I passed every portion including the Polygraph in 2012 and tripled the standard during their fitness test but my process was stalled due to an erroneous entry in my VA Medical Records and a request for my full Military Discharge records with Reason for Decision. I requested the my full record which at the time was in another state and was brought to the Newark VA Regional Office. CBP gave me 10 business days but the records took over 8 weeks. So even with an extension the records were received out of time and my offer was retracted which I accepted. I reapplied within less than a month for the 2013 Announcement so the items that I previously passed were still valid. The Medical records were brought up again but this time I had my full record available. I went to the VA for a referral for a Family Counselor for me and my wife for the loss of two children (Grief Counseling). During this application process I was asked to undergo multiple evaluations at my own expense one of which was an Orthopedic evaluation for something in my Service Connected record. That Doctor reviewed my medical records during the evaluation, saw the referral request for a Family Counselor and in his evaluation report he stated "Patient has a History of PTSD"! I have never had PTSD, was never Hospitalized nor Medicated for that or any Mental Health issue in my entire life. I was then subjected to 5 or 6 Mental Health evaluations even though the referring Mental Health practitioner stated that the Patient has never had PTSD, the Orthopedic Doctor (who is not a mental health practitioner and in no place to make that determination) officially corrected my VA Medical record to reflect the same, wrote a letter of apology for the grievous error and his Section Chief personally gave me an updated Orthopedic evaluation to no avail. CBP continued to insist I had PTSD even though they had my Full Ser4vice Record and evidence to the contrary. I filed and EEOC complaint Pro Se for Violations of both USSERA and the Vietnam Era Veteran's Act (Discrimination Against a Disabled Veteran and Discrimination for a "Perceived Disability") which is presently before an Administrative Federal Judge. I applied for the 2014 Job Announcement and was asked for an outside evaluation again but this time along with the Referring VA Doctor's records I paid $600 for a Psychological Evaluation by an Agency that does Psych-Evals for all levels of Law Enforcement. I received a PASS on that evaluation and the Medical was no longer an issue. At the same time I applied for a job with Immigration and Customs Enforcement and received a tentative offer. During this process I was subjected to 4 Polygraph examinations at the Newark Office and was told that there was something wrong with each exam. next I was asked to go up to JFK Airport for a Final Exam with John Gordon and received a FAIL on the same Polygraph that I passed a little over a year before so they retracted their offer. Now at the Pre-Trial Conference with the Administrative Judge CBP's Attorney tried to introduce the information of the failed 2014 Polygraph (even though I previously passed the same exam Administered by Mr. Gordon). The Judge denied their request stating that 2014 application process has no bearing on the case and or complaint of Discrimination. I have shared both similar and different circumstances as did Username "11x-RANGER". The Attorney requested Formal Mediation to settle the complaint. I went to Mediation in an effort to settle this matter. All I wanted originally was to get past this obstacle and be placed in the next academy class but since I have a final Offer from DHS/ICE the job was no longer an issue. At Mediation made an insulting offer for their multiple counts of Discrimination which the Attorney stated was for my "INCONVENIENCE"! I rejected their offer and they spent the rest of the day sabotaging the Mediation. Now I have no choice but to go before the Administrative Judge for a fair remedy. CBP is banking on the fact that due to my ignorance of EEOC Law and Procedure they may be able to win the case. I won't drop the case because if the Judge rules in my favor, it will set Legal Precedence and will help other Veterans that become victims of discrimination. The whole point is even if I had PTSD, which I do not, it is not a disqualifying condition of employment. I personally know several Law Enforcement Officers that work for ICE (which is a sister Agency of CBP and both under DHS) that are service connected for PTSD, Operation Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom War Veterans and it does not affect their job. I, on the other hand, do not have the condition, was erroneously labeled as having PTSD and denied employment due to Discrimination of my Service Connected Disability.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #25 - May 16th, 2016 at 9:08pm
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Quote:
I had a similar experience with CBP. I applied for the CBPO position on both the 2012 and 2013 job announcements... I have never had PTSD, was never Hospitalized nor Medicated for that or any Mental Health issue in my entire life... CBP continued to insist I had PTSD even though they had my Full Service Record and evidence to the contrary... I... was erroneously labeled as having PTSD and denied employment due to Discrimination of my Service Connected Disability.

Whew! It sounds like DHS is trying to give you PTSD.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #26 - May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm
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I received notification a few days ago regarding a failed polygraph from CPB too.  My experience is very similar to many of yours.  I'm a Veteran in my early 30's, I've held a TS/SCI since 2007, I have 10 years of HUMINT experience, I currently serve in a reserve component, and I previously worked as a Police Officer.  The military no longer uses a polygraph as part of the TS/SCI process, probably because there is no reason to do so.  I was administered a polygraph test during pre-employment screening when I was a police officer and passed that test with no issues. 
I have never been comfortable with the polygraph process.  I am familiar with the test due to my HUMINT and law enforcement backgrounds.  I feel like Iím being treated like a terrorist or criminal when if Iím being given the test.  I was given the test by a polygrapher in west Texas named Keith Kyle.  I was immediately uncomfortable talking to him.  He is an older, white male, with a bald head, and serial killer blue eyes.  To do not feel at ease when people like him try to act buddy-buddy with me, I do not know him, he is not my friend, and is not there to help me; he is there to earn a nice day of GS-14 pay which he will get no matter how my day goes.  I do not appreciate when people run approaches on me.  His personal stories he told to try to relate to me to try to illicit information were not believable, and I was in interested in hearing them.
Many of his questions he asked before hooking me up to the machine were not appropriate, and caused a lot of anxiety during test.  None of these involved anything that would make me unsuitable.  He asked if I had been raped or sexually assaulted.  I have been on two occasions, but I said no because both were situations that were ďgrey areasĒ and I did not want to discuss this with the creepy looking middle, aged male polygrapher.  Itís not the age or gender, itís the polygrapher part, itís not his job to try to get female applicants to discuss being victims of sexual assault.  These awkward questions caused me to think about the incident sporadically throughout the test.   He also discussed my family life, my parents disowned me about 10 years ago, which was hurtful, and not something I should have got questioned about in depth since this is not his job.  He also had no place digging when I said I donít have children, my e-quip says I donít have children, he does not need to dig on why, Iím unmarried and over 30, that ship has sailed and itís not by choice.  I was upset prior to being hooked up due to being forced to discuss irrelevant personal and relationship issues. 
During the actual test, I was truthful and not hiding anything.  I had trouble sitting still for a few reasons; I use mentholated foot powder due to athleteís foot so my feet were tingling, the padded office chair forced me to sit in an unnatural leaning back position, and the polygrapher used a large blood pressure cuff on my forearm causing lot of discomfort.  The large blood pressure cuff was probably not meant for my forearm, I am fairly petit and it is meant for the upper arm of someone larger.  My hand and wrist were tomato red and swollen the whole time, and the next day my whole forearm was covered in small bruises.  I found that due to the discomfort of the devices my body would not allow me to breath in a natural rhythm when I was hooked up.  This is a fairly common response to pain or discomfort.  He continuously harped on me to breathe normally during the test, but I couldnít, telling someone to breath naturally seems like an oxymoron.  Later in the test he decided use ďsilent answers,Ē this concerned me because I worried that he could not tell how I was answering the questions.  The process took almost 8 hours, which was the worst 8 hours Iíve experienced in a very long time. 
The polygrapher determined that I had committed some sort of serious crime and was lying about it.  I have never committed any serious crime and could not recall any non-serious crimes I had committed either.  During the test I answered honestly, but found myself scraping my mind for any occurrence that would relate to the scenario I was asked about.  Iím the type of person who when asked the control question ďare the lights onĒ I looked up to see if there were one or two bulbs illuminated since lights was plural in the question.  He also accused me of ďusing something to help myself with the test, but it didnít work.Ē  I assume he was referring to countermeasures, I was not familiar with any prior to the test, I did not research any because I did not think I needed to since I have not issues with the poly in the past.  I was very anxious leading up to the test because CBP was really my ďplan C.Ē  It is not an ideal position for me, but I did not pass the FBIís PT test and have to wait at least a year to retake it, and I passed up the hiring process for my local police department since I was going through the FBIís process.  Iím not sure if I should even retake the FBI PT test and continue with that process since it will also include a polygraph.  Iím looking into going back to school since my criminology B.A. is worthless if I canít pass polygraphs. 

Is there anything I can do about this?
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #27 - May 22nd, 2016 at 7:00pm
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dysFUNCTIONALvet wrote on May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Is there anything I can do about this?


Let's see:  you blamed your failure on:

the examiner because he's bald, has killer eyes, and was trying to establish rapport with you.
You blamed the big bad uncomfortable chair.
You blamed your stinky smelly feet.
You blamed the blood pressure cuff.

Yeah, you can stop whining like a sniveling toad.
  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #28 - May 22nd, 2016 at 8:22pm
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Of course no one except your doctor has any right to dig into seriously personal issues like being the victim of sexual assault, being disowned by your parents, missing out on having children, and so forth. The examiner asked those questions solely to establish his right to do so. The same thing goes for his forcing you to endure his lame war stories, using the most painful pressure cuff he could find, putting you in a stress position in the chair, and all the other dominant macho bullshit.

The idea is to drive you into a mental state where you understand that there no civilized limits on the examiner's behavior, but you nevertheless must gain his good opinion of you. When a polygraph examination pretest interview works as planned, you end up believing you must placate a madman. It sounds like your interviewer was successful.

The effect of this is that when he pretended to determine "that I had committed some sort of serious crime and was lying about it", you

dysFUNCTIONALvet wrote on May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm:
found myself scraping my mind for any occurrence that would relate to the scenario I was asked about.

NEVER NEVER DO THIS DURING A POLY EXAM. This is one of the things that causes the traces to appear different from the rest of the chart during relevant questions. If I asked you the same question, say, over lunch, would you scrape your mind? Of course not; you'd tell me to bugger off. But you let Keith Kyle (If that is his name) occupy your head.

dysFUNCTIONALvet wrote on May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Is there anything I can do about this?

It's too late for the test you just took, but if you need to take a poly exam in the future, you should study the subject thoroughly. Read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf and train yourself to ignore the attitude and desires of the examiner.

Remember: the polygraph machine does not know whether you are honest. The examiner does not know whether you are honest. The idiot hiring managers who are relying on the test do not know whether you are honest. Other agencies who may get hold of the test results do not know whether you are honest. There is only one person in the entire world who knows whether you are honest during a poly exam, and that is you. Never let anybody tell you different.

-Aunty.
« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2016 at 2:20pm by Aunty Agony »  
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Re: CBP POLYGRAPH EXPERIENCE - FAILURE
Reply #29 - May 22nd, 2016 at 9:07pm
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Aunty Agony wrote on May 22nd, 2016 at 8:22pm:
When a polygraph examination pretest interview works as planned, you end up believing you must placate a madman.


Words of wisdom, Aunty.

To the best of my knowledge, CBP polygraph operators do not use assumed names. An Internet search for Keith+Kyle+CBP+polygraph turned up this profile on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-r-kyle-2277a894

I've attached his portrait.
  

keith-kyle.jpg ( 25 KB | 57 Downloads )
keith-kyle.jpg

George W. Maschke
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