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Topic Summary - Displaying 25 post(s).
Posted by: John M.
Posted on: Mar 23rd, 2018 at 7:32pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Thanks for sharing with us 11x-RANGER.

Good things happen to good people.

Remember, there's a special place in hell for polygraphers and the officials that support this fraud. Judging someone as untrustworthy based solely on the "results" is an individual rights violation - except for when the government does it.

Wtf?

#stoppolygraphabuse

Posted by: 11x-RANGER
Posted on: Mar 23rd, 2018 at 5:10pm
  Mark & Quote
I started this post 5 years ago, here is my 5 year update.

I am now serving as a Police Officer in NYC. Finished my Masters Degree in National Security and Diplomacy from a  top college.

I've been getting calls here and there from people across the country with very similar experiences and i feel really sorry for them but life moves on, as long as you stay persistent and set goals  you will eventually get into a good LE job.
I read my post and it brought back a lot of memories, i don't think ill ever be able to forgive that Polygraph examiner, Larry Gordon, as he stripped away something i wanted very badly for no good reason.
I actually recently re-applied to CBP I will continue to update on the application process. Thank you all for contributing to this post and sharing your stories, i know hearing " you failed " is a tough pill to swallow when you know that you are a good person and candidate. The government sends us off to combat and when we return home they tell us we can't work a mediocre LEO job.
Posted by: skingalvanics
Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2017 at 6:36pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
Spend your resources with an agency that actually cares about those who go out of their way to be a part of something bigger than themselves.


Excellent advice!  I would go one step further and suggest that any employer who relies on polygraph results is not worth seeking a career with!
Posted by: skingalvanics
Posted on: Oct 3rd, 2017 at 6:33pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Clybourn wrote on Jul 23rd, 2017 at 2:36pm:
I ended the exam because I saw exactly where it was going and have no regrets about it.


Congratulations!  What you did took "cajones", and I admire you for it.
Posted by: PATRIOT17
Posted on: Oct 2nd, 2017 at 5:20am
  Mark & Quote
I recently had a similar experience like most of you all on this page. When I entered the room, the exam proctor acted friendly by asking questions about my family, my college experiences, my hobbies, and my consideration of CBP as a career. When the actual exam started, the proctor switched almost instantly to an annoyed and irritated mood. Once I was called back into the exam room, the proctor began accusing me of using deception during the test since I disclosed at the beginning that I had difficulty with the serious crime question on previous polygraph tests. I told the proctor that I had no intention of causing deception during the exam and that perhaps I was nervous when that question was coming as I had difficulty with it in the past, but apparently that wasn't even a consideration for the proctor. Mind you, I have NEVER committed any serious crime in my life, NEVER done drugs, and NEVER committed alcohol offenses. What tipped me over the edge of reason was when the proctor insulted my honor by bringing up matters personal to me, and I respectfully asked that I withdraw from the employment process as I will NOT give my service to an agency that cares so little for the personal values of those who have given up time and money to serve their country. I am not offended by many things, but the lack of professional mannerism as the proctor interrogated me was appalling and NEVER in my life will I apply for CBP nor will I ever tell anyone to apply for them. All they do is waste your time by thinking that you're doing everything right only to be told you're completely wrong in the end. Spend your resources with an agency that actually cares about those who go out of their way to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
Posted by: Clybourn
Posted on: Jul 23rd, 2017 at 2:36pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
I took a CBP polygraph a few weeks ago and walked out on it. All of the research I did predicted exactly what would happen, right down to the "calibration" questions and procedures. After the examiner attempted to get me to go over the same line of questioning a third time (claiming first that i was moving too much, then that my "mind was racing, and must be hiding something from her) while becoming increasingly hostile and accusatory, I ended the exam because I saw exactly where it was going and have no regrets about it.
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2017 at 2:10pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
George W. Maschke wrote on Jun 2nd, 2017 at 1:50pm:
It is true that in order to be hired, one must pass both the polygraph and background investigation. But one can be rejected over either one, alone.


Correct.† As I've said numerous times on this site, the BI can be every bit as pernicious as the polygraph.

Certainly that was the case for me.† It was a great lesson for me in just how nasty people can be when they believe that they can hide under the cloak of anonymity.† One alcoholic sociopath who participated in my BI didn't even want anonymity!†

Following any rejection from any federal employment involving the almighty security clearance, always make a FOIA/PA request to the agency that ultimately declined the employment application.† Many applicants will be in for some very ugly surprises, as once was I. Shocked Roll Eyes
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2017 at 1:50pm
  Mark & Quote
Quote:
So i just got a email from CBP saying my tenative selection for employment was withdrawn due to a unfavorible Polygraph examination. I did some research and found out that the poly test is supppse to be used conjuction with the BI for a determination and that in there policies outlined and their manual that it is not the sole determine factor. I sent a email to them saying that i will be contacting congress because their requirements goes against their policies.


It is true that in order to be hired, one must pass both the polygraph and background investigation. But one can be rejected over either one, alone.

In federal agencies that impose a pre-employment polygraph screening requirement, it is common for applicants to be rejected based on polygraph results alone.

The best solution would be for Congress to amend the Employee Polygraph Protection Act to close the government loopholes. We have proposed language on how to do that here:

https://antipolygraph.org/ceppa.shtml
Posted by: Josh Josh
Posted on: Jun 2nd, 2017 at 3:19am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
So i just got a email from CBP saying my tenative selection for employment was withdrawn due to a unfavorible Polygraph examination. I did some research and found out that the poly test is supppse to be used conjuction with the BI for a determination and that in there policies outlined and their manual that it is not the sole determine factor. I sent a email to them saying that i will be contacting congress because their requirements goes against their policies.
Posted by: Tommie
Posted on: May 28th, 2017 at 3:07pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
You are a fucking kiss ass who like when a veteran get screwed. YOUR MOTHER SHOULD HAVE HAD AN ABORTION.....

Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Feb 10th, 2017 at 6:21am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
How long take for get a answer in your polygraph exam for the CBP?


I never applied to the CBP.† My rejection from NSA came about 2 mos. after my "interview" there.

From the CIA, it took under a month from the time of my "interviews". Roll Eyes
Posted by: Jose
Posted on: Feb 10th, 2017 at 4:45am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
How long take for get a answer in your polygraph exam for the CBP?
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jan 1st, 2017 at 3:11am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
then he told me take a break. I came back after the 15 min break then he said you thought of soemthign on your break that you


Exactly the same stunt was pulled on me at the CIA.  The examiner kept complaining about my responses, and then sent me on a lunch break.  When I returned, he asked me if I had "remembered" anything new. Embarrassed
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jan 1st, 2017 at 3:00am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
The polygrapher I dealt with at the CIA had a similar approach.† He kept asking me if I was "serious" about wanting to work there.
Next, an individual identifying himself as a supervisory polygrapher "assured" me that many applicants turn out not to be "serious" about wanting to be employed there, and that there was nothing shameful if that was also the case with me.† †Angry
Posted by: Aunty Agony
Posted on: Sep 10th, 2016 at 7:23pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
he said when the lady was looking for his paper work for him to sign out.  All he saw on all the papers for the others that were there that day was "fail".

Obviously the CBP had reached its hiring quota for the period and was rejecting all further applicants for its own administrative convenience.

The Constitution of the United States of America does not protect its citizens against this particular form of abuse, although obviously it should. A new Bill of Rights would require ratification by 2/3 of the states but maybe it's time to start thinking about it.
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Sep 10th, 2016 at 9:55am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Franki41 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:44am:
Hello everyone, Iím just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...


I'm sure that you could appeal.  I'm equally certain that it would be wasted time and effort on your part. Roll Eyes
Posted by: Dan Mangan
Posted on: Sep 10th, 2016 at 1:48am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
DJH, speaking as a full member of the American Polygraph Association, I think it's safe to say that your kid was fatally unprepared.

I wish I was at back my old TDY hooch on the strand so we could meet at the Tin Fish, or maybe McP's.

As a father (and grandfather) myself, I'd be happy to give you and your son the full brief on pre-employment polygraph "testing."
Posted by: George W. Maschke
Posted on: Sep 9th, 2016 at 3:42pm
  Mark & Quote
DJH,

Thank you for sharing this. I very much regret your son's experience. It's an all-too-common one: CBP has a pre-employment polygraph failure rate on the order of 70%, and it's clear that many truthful, well-qualified applicants like your son are being falsely branded as liars and blacklisted from CBP employment.

Your son will want to contest the polygrapher's false accusation of deception in writing. His letter will confirm that he didn't, through silence, tacitly accept the outcome.

I don't agree with you that the polygraph should be used as a backup to the background investigation. It's junk science and it shouldn't be used at all.

You and your son will find our free book, The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, of interest. It exposes the trickery (not science) on which polygraphy depends and documents the sorts of harm that misplaced reliance on this pseudoscience is causing to national security, public safety, and individuals. It also provides tips for mitigating the risk of a false positive outcome.

If you'd like to discuss your son's situation or polygraph matters more generally, please feel free to contact me.
Posted by: DJH
Posted on: Sep 9th, 2016 at 3:22pm
  Mark & Quote
First I am a Border Patrol Supervisor, Civil Servant for 30 years.  Now here is my story.  My son, 22 years old, who is so squeaking clean, raised on a military base, altar boy, CCD teacher, Imperial Beach Junior life guard for 5 years, never in trouble.  Never did drugs.  Not because he is my son but because it is true.  We live in the country so it isn't something he was even tempted to do.  Currently holds #1 plate in 250cc desert racing.  Racing since he was 3 years old.  Poor kid.  Anyway, he passed everything with flying color, interview, everything.  Failed his polygraph.   Everyone in the desert racing community, college, in total shock.  If "T" couldn't pass it, who could?"   During the interview, the interviewer after being strapped into the chair, the interviewer started verbally attacking him after he said he had never did drugs.  Never tempted.  Got into his face and accused him of lying.  The constant "I don't believe you".  "Someone your age did drugs".  "What did you do when they offered it to you".  Almost spitting when he spoke, anger.  Accusatory.  On an on for almost 2 hours, one 15 minute break in the middle.  At the end it was, "you failed, I don't believe you".  My son called me from the parking lot, almost in tears because this guy ripped him a new butt hole.  I have never heard tears in my sons voice not even when he ate shit on the bike.  Here he was so proud to get where he was and so ready for the polygraph only to be ripped to shreds.  In fact, he said when the lady was looking for his paper work for him to sign out.  All he saw on all the papers for the others that were there that day was "fail".  It isn't right and there should be a class action because the guys doing the polygraph are verbal abusers.  If the polygraph cannot be used in court and a pass or fail, it shouldn't be used as the pass or fail in hiring.  It should be used as back up to the background investigation.  Not all or nothing.  I asked how we could fight it.  I was told by my chain, you could ask under a FOIA for the transcript and video but they will not change the decision.  Best for him to reapply and go through the process all over again.  No wonder we cannot recruit.  The polygraph is so subjective based only on an opinion of someone who I swear gets paid by the number of people he/she fails.   Sad but true. Angry
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jul 25th, 2016 at 4:22am
  Mark & Quote
quickfix wrote on May 22nd, 2016 at 7:00pm:
dysFUNCTIONALvet wrote on May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Is there anything I can do about this?


Let's see:† you blamed your failure on:

the examiner because he's bald, has killer eyes, and was trying to establish rapport with you.
You blamed the big bad uncomfortable chair.
You blamed your stinky smelly feet.
You blamed the blood pressure cuff.

Yeah, you can stop whining like a sniveling toad.†


With quick fixes like you in Langley, no wonder we have so many Aldrich Ames's, Ed Howard's, and all the other "upstanding" Agency employees who were able to trade their access to classified information for a little extra "spending cash" ! GrinGeorge W. Maschke wrote on May 22nd, 2016 at 9:07pm:
Aunty Agony wrote on May 22nd, 2016 at 8:22pm:
When a polygraph examination pretest interview works as planned, you end up believing you must placate a madman.


Words of wisdom, Aunty.

To the best of my knowledge, CBP polygraph operators do not use assumed names. An Internet search for Keith+Kyle+CBP+polygraph turned up this profile on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-r-kyle-2277a894

I've attached his portrait.

u
Thanks for your efforts, George!

Naming names and posting photos is our only hope for embarrassing polygraph operators and exposing the truth about their vile brand of alchemy! Shocked

Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jul 25th, 2016 at 4:16am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
quickfix wrote on May 22nd, 2016 at 7:00pm:
dysFUNCTIONALvet wrote on May 21st, 2016 at 8:07pm:
Is there anything I can do about this?


Let's see:† you blamed your failure on:

the examiner because he's bald, has killer eyes, and was trying to establish rapport with you.
You blamed the big bad uncomfortable chair.
You blamed your stinky smelly feet.
You blamed the blood pressure cuff.

Yeah, you can stop whining like a sniveling toad.†


With quick fixes like you in Langley, no wonder we have so many Aldrich Ames's, Ed Howard's, and all the other "upstanding" Agency employees who were able to trade their access to classified information for a little extra "spending cash" ! Grin
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jul 25th, 2016 at 3:41am
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Quote:
Is there any active class action lawsuits going on??? My husband just "failed" poly over total BS so we're doing everything the DQ letter says we "may" do such as FOIA and re-apply and all that but, it stuns me how his description of his experience is identical to so many of the failed poly posts here, it's like Vets are being targeted and it's a shame.

Was he also at CBP ? Undecided
Posted by: Evan S
Posted on: Jul 24th, 2016 at 6:57pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Try contacting Senator Jeff Flake (R-AZ); he has expressed concern over the pre-employment polygraph for the CBP, and the unusually high number of failures for vets.

https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact-jeff
Posted by: Mrs.a
Posted on: Jul 24th, 2016 at 6:14pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Is there any active class action lawsuits going on??? My husband just "failed" poly over total BS so we're doing everything the DQ letter says we "may" do such as FOIA and re-apply and all that but, it stuns me how his description of his experience is identical to so many of the failed poly posts here, it's like Vets are being targeted and it's a shame.
Posted by: xenonman
Posted on: Jul 24th, 2016 at 3:17pm
  Mark & QuoteQuote
Franki41 wrote on Jul 24th, 2016 at 8:44am:
Hello everyone, Iím just trying to find some information. What could about this (We have been notified by the Office of Internal Affairs that you did not complete a favorable polygraph examination; therefore, your tentative offer of employment is being withdrawn.) Can I reply and if so, when? Could I appeal this...


Frankly, I'm surprised that they would even provide the fact of an "unsatisfactory" polygraph as the specific reason for not hiring you.   Many agencies simply don't/won't provide an applicant that level of detail about the reasons behind their decision.  Undecided
 
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