Poll
Poll closed Question: If it is true that the Marston Polygraph Academy shortchanged students on hours of instruction and told them words to the effect of, "If you don't tell them (the American Polygraph Association), we won't either," how should the APA respond? (You don't have to be registered to vote in this poll.)
bars   pie
*** This poll has now closed ***


The school's accreditation should be revoked and those responsible expelled from the APA.    
  48 (56.5%)
Accreditation should be revoked, but those responsible should be allowed to remain as members.    
  1 (1.2%)
Accreditation should be suspended, but only temporarily.    
  11 (12.9%)
The school should receive a warning but retain its accreditation.    
  10 (11.8%)
Even if the accusations are true, no action is warranted.    
  10 (11.8%)
Other (If you are a registered user, feel free to post your thoughts in this message thread).    
  5 (5.9%)




Total votes: 85
« Last Modified by: Administrator on: May 3rd, 2007 at 8:23am »
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Reply Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 15 Replies) Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy (Read 23553 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Mar 13th, 2007 at 10:19am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AntiPolygraph.org has received the following anonymous complaint against the Marston Polygraph Academy, an American Polygraph Association accredited school in San Bernardino, California:

Quote:
3/12/2007

To: American Polygraph Association; State of CA Bureau for Private
Post-secondary and Vocational Education; others

Fraud complaint about Marston Polygraph Academy,
San Bernardino California

+++ Attempt to defraud both students and APA itself +++

Gentlepersons:

The current class of this expensive academy is in its second week. On the first
day, last week, it was learned that the scheduled hours on their web site
(8am-5pm M-F, 1 hr lunch, 40 class hours per week) was only to be appease [sic]
APA and BPPVE as students were told it would really be 9am-330pm M-F, 1
hour lunch. After it was realized that this didn't meet the APA requirement for
schooling hours, the students were advised, an exact quote:
"If you don't tell them (APA), we won't either".

This school is chosen despite closer and lower-cost alternatives because ALL
OTHER polygraph academies near Los Angeles are NOT 'APA approved'. This
school only recently became approved by APA, in good part by guaranteeing
APA the required hours. The reality is: each student (and APA) is getting
about 100 hours less of teaching than promised. BPPVE also approved
Marston (25448403) based on the guaranteed 320 hours; BPPVE also had a
recent problem with this school operating unlicensed by BPPVE.

Shorting the students nearly 1/3 of the promised hours is fraud.
Current and past students will be hesitant to confirm this as they have already
been given the 'APA is the most important part of your future' speeches and
will be scared to cooperate with investigations/interviews by APA and BPPVE
due to loss of potential APA membership qualification.

Hopefully the self-policing APA will revoke this fairly recently-issued 'approval'
and show that they will do this even to its own long-time members who run
the school (the anti-polygraph organization has jumped on past examples of
APA appearing to turn a blind-eye to member misdeeds). It is hoped that
BPPVE will also fine and/or terminate this school, and make use of tuition
reimbursement for all past/current students.  Thank you.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #1 - Mar 24th, 2007 at 10:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AntiPolygraph.org has received a follow-up to the earlier anonymous complaint against the Marston Polygraph Academy:



« Last Edit: Dec 26th, 2014 at 12:42pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #2 - Apr 24th, 2007 at 12:52pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
A month and a half after the above-cited complaint was filed with the American Polygraph Association, it appears that the Marston Polygraph Academy has not lost its APA accreditation, as it is still included on their list of accredited schools. One wonders if there is any level of fraud the APA is unwilling to tolerate?
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #3 - Apr 30th, 2007 at 2:42pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AntiPolygraph.org has received by fax another anonymous communication regarding the Marston Polygraph Academy:

Quote:
Marston Academy, continued...

A law enforcement agency employee who attended last year has confirmed that his class also attended far less than the web-posted eight weeks of 8am to 5pm hours.

His agency paid $4500 for his tuition.

That law enforcement agency (and others) will likely soon be looking for a refund on the $14 per hour (in contract) total they paid, as they were charged for 320 hours of training and were given far less.

No surprise here: APA had not contacted this employee, nor contacted students of other past classes, to verify that the fraudulent shorting of hours has been ongoing for quite some time. There was no investigation at all, other than the one school visit.

APA has not yet revoked 'accreditation' they gave this school, for one reason: they need the membership dues of APA members to survive, and APA counts on such schools to convince their students to join. If APA were to properly distance itself from this rip-off school, APA would lose dozens of potential members every year. This would cost APA thousand [sic] of dollars per year, so just like they allow continued membership of phony PhDs and other fraudsters, they won't be punishing a school that has been defrauding the public.

Guaranteed: the school will remain 'accredited' by APA.

The only chance for proper handling (revocation, student reimbursement, and so on) falls to CA's school licensing bureau, and they are currently without the funding needed.


A letter from Barbara Ward, Chief of the California Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education indicates that the bureau is set to become inoperative on 1 July 2007 unless new legislation is enacted. This letter, as well as the above-transcribed text, are attached to this post as a single, two-page PDF file.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box fender85
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 20
Joined: Jan 23rd, 2007
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #4 - May 7th, 2007 at 5:54am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
So  a Polygraph accreditting school is telling  it's future polygraphers to LIE? Well are'nt they worried that the APA can hook them up to one of them fancy lie telling machines to see if there telling the truth? You know there 98% accurate? Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1904
Ex Member


Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #5 - May 17th, 2007 at 1:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
One of the forum members questioned: What does it take to get the APA to react to unethical behaviour.
(What are they willing to tolerate)

I think -just about anything. My personal experience is that the APA is top heavy with unethical people and they protect their own. Nathan Gordon recently conducted a satellite school in South Africa in Feb 2007. He reportedly used two local examiners to assist him - neither having any professional qualifications. She reportedly used a foreign (european) psychologist who spoke with a heavy accent and whom was difficult to understand.
The APA should canvass the students for opinion and critique of that course.

S.A. Examiners that have not attended any basic accredited course, can attend a 2-Day refresher/ongoing credits course given by Chuck Slupski via a Preoria based company (Verdicus) and
are presented with APA certification.

Sort of makes a mockery of the entire 'APA Accredited' badge.
What's that old saying again......"  it takes one to catch one..."
Smiley

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1904
Ex Member


Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #6 - May 17th, 2007 at 3:23pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The APA should grant MPA honorary membership status.
At least MPA was honest enough to cut the hours short.
Which is the worst sin - cutting short the hours in class;
OR
Feeding students war stories and anecdotal bullshit for
10 weeks.

It's a no-brainer.

As Ali Baba said "Welcome to my den of thieves"

Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Administrator
Administrator
*****
Offline



Posts: 315
Joined: Sep 28th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #7 - Jun 21st, 2007 at 5:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
AntiPolygraph.org has received the following anonymous communication:

Quote:
Marston

Still no real investigation, still no punishment.

Caught in the act of greatly shorting hours, looks like APA is just gonna let 'em off with the promise not to do it again.

We knew this is how APA (now often called the 'Amateur Polygraph Association' because of the continual fiascos) would be handling it. Instead of finishing this with professionalism, APA would lose thousands of dollars this year if they removed their approval of this school thus losing future APA member dues from Marston students, so no punishment.

Blowhard TV O'Malley is all bark with no bite.

Students from prior classes were not contacted, which would have shown a pattern of shorting the hours.

APA has been increasingly worthless for over a decade now. Their 'approved schools' are often of lesser-quality than schools who choose not to involve APA. Notice that the 'Contact A Member' portion of their new website has been down for 6 months? That is because it reveals the sad low-low membership totals of today, closer to 500 paid US members than the 'thousands' they want you to believe; if that web portion is ever up & running again, count the members state-by-state; except for a few secret government examiners, everyone is listed. It is a dying organization, full of infighting and power-grabbing, hoping a fresh website will breathe life into it.

This non-investigation and non-punishment will be causing many members to not renew next time dues are due.
  

AntiPolygraph.org Administrator
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box 1904
Ex Member


Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #8 - Jun 22nd, 2007 at 9:30am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
A collective noun to describe the APA:

" a circus of clowns "
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2007 at 5:25am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Last week, the American Polygraph Association convened its 42nd annual seminar in New Orleans. The APA board of directors has presumably now had ample opportunity to consider the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy (which AntiPolygraph.org understands were confirmed through an on-site inspection). However, the APA continues to list the Marston Polygraph Academy as being among its "accredited" schools:

http://www.polygraph.org/schools.cfm
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box JunkMan
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Jul 11th, 2005
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #10 - Aug 30th, 2007 at 12:51pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Last week, the American Polygraph Association convened its 42nd annual seminar in New Orleans. The APA board of directors has presumably now had ample opportunity to consider the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy (which AntiPolygraph.org understands were confirmed through an on-site inspection). However, the APA continues to list the Marston Polygraph Academy as being among its "accredited" schools:

http://www.polygraph.org/schools.cfm


Almighty Dollar wins again
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box dedicated2truth
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 6th, 2007
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #11 - Sep 6th, 2007 at 8:43am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
It is with a heavy heart that I find myself compelled to post to this forum, of all places. But I can hold my tongue no longer. The sad truth is that the complaint against the Marston Polygraph Academy was fully confirmed, and the shameful truth is that the APA directors chose to sweep the problem under the rug. I am uploading the official report of inspection for all to see. These are the 4 main findings of fact:

First:
Marston Polygraph Academy is in clear violation of APA accreditation regulations governing
accurately scheduling and reporting school training schedule. All records indicate the school was
starting at 08:00AM and ending daily at 5:00 PM. These records do not accurately reflect the
school’s training schedule.

Secondly,
Marston Polygraph Academy is clear violation of APA accredited training attendance
requirements in that the students were not receiving required time limits of for basic polygraph
course instruction.

Third:
Most seriously, this inspector finds that the printed syllabus clearly misrepresents the actual
schedule to the detriment of the students and professional training, this inspector believes that a
fraud has been perpetuated on those relying on the accuracy of the school’s records and
representations. Representing that the Marston Polygraph Academy follows and adheres to APA
standards of basic polygraph training is misleading and untrue.

Fourth:
Regarding the statement alleged to have been made by personnel associated with the Marston
Polygraph Academy, “if you don’t tell we won’t either”. In a frank discussion with PI Lynch, he
states that through some discussion with the students, a statement in some way similar to the one
above may have been made but according to him, it was not meant in context as it now sounds
out of context. This inspector finds that in or out of context, the statement was inappropriate if it
in any way it referred to APA oversight authority.

Future examiners choosing a polygraph school deserve to know the truth. Those directors of APA accredited schools who do abide by the rules deserve to know the truth. The APA rank and file deserves to know the truth. I am only sorry that I could find no better way to make the truth known than to post it here, and for that I apologize.
  

Marston_Inspection_2007.pdf ( 33 KB | Downloads )
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #12 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 10:07am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Despite the allegations against the Marston Polygraph Academy having been confirmed by an inspection (see the report), it appears that the American Polygraph Association indeed took no disciplinary action against the San Bernardino, California, polygraph school, whose APA accreditation was neither revoked nor suspended.

Instead, having confirmed the truth of the anonymous report that one of its accredited schools was shortchanging students on hours, the APA's reported response is a rule change whereby anonymous allegations against polygraph schools will in the future not be investigated. Issue #141 of Polygraph Place's newsletter, The Relevant Issue reports:

Quote:
5. In the Private Forums - "Marston Polygraph Academy - Grievance brings side benefit. No more anonymous complaints."

A partial post from the examiner only private forums:

    "The APA has, since the initiation of the investigation in that matter determined that it will, in the future, require that before an investigation is undertaken on the basis of a complaint made against an accredited APA school, such complaint must be in writing and identifying the name of the complainant.."


Roll Eyes
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box sackett
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 347
Joined: Jan 31st, 2008
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #13 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 3:25pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George,

you forgot to report that the Marston Academy immediately corrected their actions upon notification by the APA of it's deficiency.

I agree that the deficiency should not have existed in the first place, but it did.  How come you haven't done any research on the hours "cut short" by the barber schools you like to compare us to, when they let their students out early...   Grin

Anyway, now the problem is fixed!  Case closed, please move on to another perceived problem within the polygraph community.

Sackett
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5905
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy
Reply #14 - Apr 2nd, 2008 at 4:16pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Sackett,

Your loyalty to your profession has made you an apologist for fraud. The Marston Polygraph Academy was accused of a gross ethical violation (shortchanging students on training hours). Upon investigation, the accusation was found to be true. The American Polygraph Association's response has been to sweep the matter under the rug and ensure that any future anonymous allegations of wrongdoing will not be investigated. I don't see how anyone who is "dedicated to truth" can defend the APA's handling of this situation.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Reply Send TopicPrint
Complaint Against Marston Polygraph Academy

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X