george, thanx for the long relpy. 
how many people do you know that used CM's and failed? (i am not refering to those that admited to extras).
people that did what you say to do in the book and failed. any one out there?

Hey, let's all gang up on Williams.  As a matter of fact, let's rename this site ANTIANYTHINGBUTGEORGE.ORG

Quote:


Agreed.  If you read the book you'll probably find yourself trying not to smile when the examiner delivers a canned speech on their research on people who lie to their families, the polygraph technology, and so on.  Or when they tell you "you can relax now" while sensors are still in place.  Or when you are sitting alone in the room for extended periods of time with a camera trained on you.  The theatrics of the whole process are amusing.

Quote:


Again, ditto.  I went in thinking the FBI is above this, and there is some ingenious ulterior purpose to their reliance on the polygraph.  Now, sadly, I think a lot of people over there must really believe in this stuff.  (Which makes some sense, because all of them passed it one way or the other.  So to them it works -- and the people who got in despite lying, or by using countermeasures, aren't about to say otherwise.)

What I don't understand (regarding application procedures) is why not use the polygraph earlier in the process?  Seems cheaper than flying applicants to test sessions and structured interviews.  Use the cheap screening mechanisms first.  Seems like it would save a lot of time and money.  It's not as if the polygraph questions are really based on anything in your application -- they are pretty generic.

There you go George.  He did it all by himself.  And I really think his post contains much better writing and his material is much better than anything in your book.  Looks like when you brag too much it always happens - someone comes along and does you one better.

wombat wrote on Jun 5^th, 2003 at 5:13pm:


I am familiar with several such cases. See, for example, Dimas' post, Taking One for the Team Part Two. (For relevant background, see his earlier post, Taking one for the team.)

As you read about the various experiences posted here, bear in mind that the great majority of the people who have downloaded The Lie Behind the Lie Detector (close to 80,000 downloads) have not posted on this message board.

wombat wrote on Jun 4^th, 2003 at 1:28pm:


Mr. Wombat,

I read both How To Sting The Polygraph and The Lie Behind The Lie Detector prior to deciding whether or not to employ countermeasures on my polygraph interrogation. I DID employ both behavioral, mental, and physical countermeasures whilst being interrogated and hooked up, and my polygrapher never had a clue-- in fact he commended me on my honesty. I was in fact truthful on all aspects of my pre-test and interrogation except for (obviously) the paranoid line of questioning about whether or not I knew anything about their Black Art. Now, the polygraphers here are quick to point out in this case that the polygraph 'worked', as I was being honest, but they fail to consider that from the moment I was hooked up till the moment the machine was switched off, I was regulating my breathing and spiking my physiological responses to the Control Questions, and of course my reactions to the ridiculous, insulting Stim Test.

I was interrogated by a polygrapher who claimed advanced training, including countermeasure detection, and who by his own account had polygraphed thousands of people. Trust me when I say, when applied properly, they don't-- indeed they cannot-- have a friggin clue that you're not the naive rube they need in order for the 'test' to 'work'. Once you know the Big Lie, all the little smaller lies your polygrapher tells you during the course of the interrogation reinforces your confidence that the entire process is morally bankrupt and of zero scientific accuracy-- just like both publications you list mentions in detail. And, just to cement your confidence in countermeasure use, I was hooked up to the latest and greatest electronic/computer polygraph device (a Lafayette Instruments POS with all the 'sensor' pads)... 

In retrospect, all the information you need in order to pass a polygraph interrogation is contained in George and Gino's free book.  Good luck... I look forward to the temper tantrums and outbursts this post will generate,

Dave

Beech Trees
Well done, of course you have ignored my request for proof of agency, but it does not matter.  Also, one who is complimented for honesty, would not be subject to "interrogation" perhaps you would use more accurate terms especially since you spend so much time on this topic.
I actually found a way for you to be of value the other day.  A sister agency had an applicant that was believed to be using countermeasures. A re-test was administered and I suggested a follow up GKT using three charts of information as contained on this site.  One key was your site name.  So Maestro, ask Lykken what the statistical odds are in scoring 6 to such a GKT?
This applicant finally admitted to using CM's AND lying on the application.  The idea that CM use is a noble, thinking, self protective act is to deny reality.  Part of the lie this applicant told was just that, he only wanted to protect against a false positive.  The polygrapher did not buy it due to reactions on the charts in the relevant areas.  Of course this story is general and I wont be specific, so dont ask.  It happened, will continue to happen, and the advice presented here will continue to cause failure.
But BT, my hysterical under employed friend, you have done your part to prevent an unsuitable applicant from joining a good agency.  I look forward to your continued participation in applicant screening.

I have a question.  If you have nothing to hide and you intend to use countermeasures, how do you know your countermeasures are what got you over the hump as opposed to your truthful responses to the relevant questions?