Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 22 ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge (Read 346942 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box JB Dawson
Guest


Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #105 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 3:43am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Marty wrote on Feb 12th, 2004 at 10:27pm:
I am unaware of anyone who has used CM's in a real life situation and identified themselves - for obvious reasons.

Also, do you maintain that critics of homeopathy or chiropractic medicine must have been practitioners to make valid criticisms or observations?

As Stossel says, "give me a break."

-Marty


Yawn...George already acknowledged on this site that he himself has never done what he advises others to do...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box suethem
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 29th, 2003
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #106 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 4:37am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
JB DAWSON,

Are you telling us that there is not one polygrapher, trained (ha) in uncovering countermeasures, that is up for the challenge?

Where are they all hiding?

With the weapons of mass destruction?






  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6166
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #107 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 10:22am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
George,

The relevance to my question may not have anything to do with his challenge; however, I hardly would consider a person an expert when they have only actually ran a "modest" number of "real" exams.


JB,

Indeed, I think your question is without relevance to Dr. Richardson's challenge. If you disagree with anything that Dr. Richardson has said or written on polygraph matters, why not simply point out his error for all to see?

Quote:
In my eyes, it's like your credibility...you've never actually employed countermeasures during a real exam and defeated it.


So what? I don't claim to speak on the subject of countermeasures based on personal experience. Rather, the information on countermeasures in TLBTLD is based on research, with citations that readers may check and evaluate for themselves.

Quote:
Therefore, although you are very intelligent on the subject of polygraph - you have no real world experience. †Your "evidence" that examiners can't detect countermeasures is dated and did not involve the use of examiners trained in countermeasures and how to deal with them.


Indeed, Honts et al.'s studies in which experienced polygraphers (forewarned that subjects would be attempting countermeasures and fully appraised of the countermeasures that they would be attempting) were unable to detect countermeasures at better-than-chance levels are several years old.

But the circumstantial evidence that polygraphers lack confidence in their ability to detect countermeasures is very strong and recent:
  • Dr. Gordon H. Barland's misleading comments regarding a case where a person was "not successful" in employing countermeasures in remarks at a 1999 public hearing on DOE polygraph policy. (He neglected to mention that the subject admitted to having employed countermeasures.) At the time, Dr. Barland was DoDPI's top expert on countermeasures.
  • DoDPI and CIA's unethical stonewalling of the National Academy of Sciences regarding supposed countermeasure studies.
  • DoDPI countermeasure course instructor Paul M. Menges' 2002 article suggesting that providing countermeasure information to the public should be outlawed.
  • The fact that no research indicating any ability by polygraphers to detect countermeasures has been published.
  • The fact that no polygrapher "has the guts" to accept Dr. Richardson's challenge.


Quote:
Frankly I suspect that most examiners who are trained and experienced in managing examinees who employ countermeasures are not in a position that would allow them to accept the challenge. †For instance, if a Federal examiner was up to your challenge, realistically what are the chance their agency would allow them to participate in such a challenge?


Federal polygraph program managers no doubt rightly fear that accepting Dr. Richardson's challenge would expose their inability to reliably detect countermeasures.

In any event, countermeasures have been on the agenda of a great many (if not most) polygraph association seminars since AntiPolygraph.org went online. Certainly, many polygraphers, including recently retired federal examiners now in private practice, have received such training.

What prevents you from accepting Dr. Richardson's challenge?
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box KISS
Guest


Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #108 - Feb 14th, 2004 at 12:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I would like to see one polygrapher step up to the plate with out twisting or confusing any ones previous statement.

I am a non bias partisan that has enough common sense to see every polygrapher on this web site evade the simplest of all questions, will you accept the damn challange or not "Yes or No".

Is there any polygrapher with enouge balls to answer the 2 year old challenge with a simple "Yes or No" with out picking me or any one else apart. Rember a simple "Yes or No".
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Canadian Crusader
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 80
Joined: Jul 8th, 2003
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #109 - Feb 15th, 2004 at 3:30am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Nice attempt KISS but it will never happen.  If polygraphers could detect countermeasures like they claim of course they would jump at this opportunity and probably want to have it televised.

They can't detect CM's therefore you will never see one accept the challenge.  They don't want anyone to see behind the little white curtain, mind you I strenuously applaude George for publicly revealing the polygraph secret.  Wish I had known before I let a lier hook me up.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box ChallengeCash
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 20th, 2004
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #110 - Mar 20th, 2004 at 1:41am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
$5,000 Reward Offer!

Observing that there is currently insufficient incentive for Drew Richardson's Challenge to be accepted, a little pot sweetening seems in order. After some consideration I make the following offer.

-------Polygrapher reward re: Drew's Challenge.---------

I offer $1,000 USD for the first qualified applicant who accepts and participates in Drew Richardson's Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge. I further offer an additional $4,000 USD should the applicant win the challenge. This offer is only extended to the polygraphist, neither Richardson nor any affiliate of AntiPolygraph.org will be rewarded by this offer (beyond bragging rights). These are the initial terms:

1. The first qualified (as specified in Richardsonís challenge) applicant that accepts the challenge within 60 days after this is publicly posted, will then work with Drew Richardson to establish an acceptable test protocol using Drew's initial challenge as a starting point. Since I have no control over either Drew or the challenger it is critical that good faith exists on the part of both participants. If no qualified applicant accepts the challenge within the initial 60 days the reward offer expires.

2. After the 60 day application window Richardson and the challenger shall have 120 days to negotiate protocol details and fulfill the challenge. After agreement on the protocol details between Richardson and the Challenger and before the actual challenge begins, I shall place $5000 into an escrow account to assure the offered rewards are available.

3. All aspects of the Challenge shall be public and non-proprietary excepting necessary secrecy around countermeasure detection techniques as Richardson has previously proposed.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box ChallengeCash
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 20th, 2004
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #111 - Mar 27th, 2004 at 1:22am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Tick Tick .....

7 Weeks til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires..........

Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for?

-ChallengeCash
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box ChallengeCash
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 20th, 2004
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #112 - Apr 12th, 2004 at 4:45am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Tick Tick Tick Tick .....

Less than 5 weeks til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires..........

Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for?

-ChallengeCash
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box richar colby
Guest


Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #113 - Apr 13th, 2004 at 11:08pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
i'm willing to take your poltgraph test any time your ready to set it up!a polygraph cannot really tell if your liying or telling the truth so go on ahead and give me the polygraph any time you want to..........
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box I-Smell-BS
Guest


Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #114 - Apr 13th, 2004 at 11:17pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
i'm willing to take your poltgraph test any time your ready to set it up!a polygraph cannot really tell if your liying or telling the truth so go on ahead and give me the polygraph any time you want to..........


Another one of the mental giants in your cry baby army Capt. George.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 193
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #115 - Apr 20th, 2004 at 3:14am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
If you smell the BS, it's only because it's coming from you. You can spew out all the personal attacks you want, but for what? Do you have anything worthwhile to say, or are you here to attack people? You can rag on someone else for being a "mental giant," but I seriously doubt you are a mental giant yourself. You want my Mensa ID? How many degrees do you have? And by the way, the word is "crybaby," not "cry baby." But only a mental midget would make that mistake.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box I-Smell-BS
Guest


Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #116 - Apr 20th, 2004 at 4:06am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr. Truth, I defer to your expertise on the subject of being a crybaby. Grin Next to George you are certainly one of the biggest ones on this board. Tongue Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6166
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #117 - Apr 20th, 2004 at 7:50am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
ISBS,

Actions speak louder than words. If you really think you smell B.S. here, why don't you simply take Dr. Richardson's challenge and show us, especially now, while the $5,000 cash incentive is in effect?

Your childish taunts and unwillingness thus far to engage in any meaningful discussion reflect poorly on yourself (and do nothing to enhance the public image of the polygraph community).
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box ChallengeCash
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 20th, 2004
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #118 - Apr 20th, 2004 at 8:32pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick .....

Less than 4 weeks til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires..........

Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for?

Polygraphers should respond by private message on this board if you don't feel comfortable inquiring on the public thread. Go for the gold. I would like to lose the $5,000 but this is a time limited offer.

-ChallengeCash
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box ChallengeCash
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 20th, 2004
Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #119 - Apr 21st, 2004 at 8:31am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
ISBS,

Actions speak louder than words. If you really think you smell B.S. here, why don't you simply take Dr. Richardson's challenge and show us, especially now, while the $5,000 cash incentive is in effect?

Your childish taunts and unwillingness thus far to engage in any meaningful discussion reflect poorly on yourself (and do nothing to enhance the public image of the polygraph community).


Indeed, actions speak louder than words. The mouth and feet seem to be going in different directions.  One would have inferred from the CM detection bragging a few months back that I would have to deal with a flood of polygraphers all eager to make a cool 5 grand. And if CM's can be so readily detected I can't imagine a more effective way to get the message across that examinees shouldn't use them than having a polygrapher claim the big one.

Well, you have nearly 4 more weeks.

-ChallengeCash
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 ... 22
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X