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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge (Read 347082 times)
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #120 - Apr 30th, 2004 at 6:48pm
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Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick ..... 
 
Less than 3 weeks til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires.......... 

Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for?

Polygraphers should respond by private message on this board if you don't feel comfortable inquiring on the public thread. Go for the gold. I would like to lose the $5,000 but this is a time limited offer.

I am astonished at the lack of interest by polygraphers in earning $5,000! Of course to WIN the $5,000 the ability to detect Countermeasures has to actually be demonstrated. Perhaps that is a bit harder than I anticipated.

-ChallengeCash
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #121 - May 8th, 2004 at 7:13pm
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Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick .....  
 
Less than 2 weeks til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires..........  
 
Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for?

Polygraphers should respond by private message on this board if you don't feel comfortable inquiring on the public thread. Go for the gold. I would like to lose the $5,000 but this is a time limited offer.  To clarify for you procrastinators and help those that confuse 60 days for 2 months, the offer expires on May 20'th at 23:59:59 [time correction, 24hr time] PDT.

While polygraphers maintain CM's are easily and nearly always detected, I am starting to really suspect that detecting CM's is either not so easy or is a rare skill. It should be obvious that the best way for polygraphers to deal with CM's is to demonstrate they are detectable. Demonstrating this, with protection against technique disclosure, should be attractive. Especially with a $5,000 reward.

-ChallengeCash
« Last Edit: May 19th, 2004 at 4:50am by ChallengeCash »  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #122 - May 19th, 2004 at 4:58am
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Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick .....   
   
2 days til the $5,000 Reward Offer expires and:

The Silence is Deafening
   
   
Here's a chance to show your CM detection skills, put AntiPolygraph.org to shame and earn a little green. Remember, the cash can only go to the challenger, not Drew Richardson or AntiPolygraph.org, so what are you all waiting for? 
 
The offer expires on May 20'th at 23:59:59 PDT.

While polygraphers maintain CM's are easily and nearly always detected, I am becoming increasingly convinced detecting CM's is not easy. It should be obvious that the best way for polygraphers to deal with CM's is to demonstrate they are detectable. Demonstrating this, with protection against technique disclosure, should be attractive. Especially with a $5,000 reward.

So far the lack of interest in winning the $5,000 suggests polygraphers, assertions to the contrary, have little confidence in winning Richardson's Challenge.
 
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #123 - May 19th, 2004 at 5:20am
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Countermeasure detection must indeed be a rare skill, as I recently used said countermeasures to beat a 'test'.
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #124 - May 20th, 2004 at 6:30pm
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Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick .....   
The Silence is STILL Deafening

   
Less than 24 hrs until the $5,000 Reward Offer for Winning Drew Richardson's Challenge expires today at 23:59:59 PDT.

-ChallengeCash
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #125 - May 21st, 2004 at 7:39pm
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The Drew Richardson Challenge Countermeasure Detection $5,000 Reward offer by "ChallengeCash" has expired with NOT A SINGLE POLYGRAPHER INQUIRY.

That would seem to speak for itself.

ChallengeCash
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #126 - Jun 25th, 2004 at 11:32pm
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Quote:
I don't think you will get any takers but not for the reasons you think.
Polygraph examiners could care less about this offer. The people I give exams to are not PHD's  or PHD candidates who have studied the polygraph for years and years and  who have little time for anything else constructive in their lives.

The polygraph community is not interested in any meaningless test in some laboratory controlled setting just to satisfy one or two malcontents.
The fact of the matter is the polygraph works and it works well.  I don't think the polygraph community is really concerned with one or two individuals with a personal vendetta against the polygraph because of personal shortcomings.

This site has enabled me and many of my fellow examiners to attend training and seminars that would have never even been held if it weren't for sites like this.
Thank You and keep up the good work.




This is a new response to an old posting you made on the antipolygraph message board (your message shoud be shown above, if I did this quote-paste thing right):

I'm a typical person, which is what you say polys are for, not the PhDs who can deface them, right?

No; poly don't work well, or there would not be such protest. 


I want you to hear my story; which I wouldn't bother telling you if it weren't true...

________
I initiated a poly to disprove an accusation a young woman made to my wife about a sexual act I allegelly conducted w/her.  I felt my only way to disprove it was to take a poly.

Confident, I contacted an attorney, and he set me up with one of the two BEST (i.e., highest credibility) poly examiners in the area.  I paid TOP dollar, because I didn't want any dispute as to the legitimacy of my results.  I paid $500 to the attorney and $600 to the examiner (I had been out of work for 6 mons by this time, and couldn't afford it, but what's money when it comes to the integrity of your name, right?).

I took the test and it showed 'deception' on the issue.  The poly operator (who had been a really nice guy until the pt when the results came back), got in my face and pointed his finger and said very forcefully, "You lied! Admit it! You touched that young woman didn't you?!".  I was floored.  I DID NOT TOUCH HER; I HAD TOLD THE TRUTH. 

I went home and told my wife I failed the poly.  She believes the girl and her accusations, and the poly... it has changed our marriage.

I can only hope that when my children grow older, I will be a credible enough figure in their lives that they believe me, though my wife doesn't.

Let me ask you this, since you're such a believer... do you think so many people would be involved w/the antipolygraph website if they didn't feel the injustice of polys??? Do you think they're ALL lyers w/nothing better to do???

False poly results can chng your life; don't you think that if polys can make such an impact on your life, they should be right... ALWAYS??? If you don't think they should always be right, are you acceptable to changing someone's life for the worse, as long as you get paid to do it???

Not a profession I could stomach.

Polys... don't do them if you're innocent.


  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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1,000 Days!
Reply #127 - Oct 24th, 2004 at 9:45am
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1,000 days and still no takers!

Today marks the 1,000th day since Dr. Richardson posted his polygraph countermeasure challenge, and still not even one polygraph operator has had the confidence in his or her supposed ability to detect countermeasures to accept the challenge (even with the $5,000 cash incentive that one of our readers so generously offered).

I ask again, what do you suppose the polygraph operators are afraid of?

Roll Eyes
  

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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #128 - Jan 29th, 2005 at 1:14pm
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Three years and still no takers!

Friday, 28 January 2005 marked the 3-year anniversary of Dr. Richardson's standing polygraph countermeasure challenge, and still not a single polygraph operator has mustered the courage to accept it.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #129 - Feb 9th, 2005 at 9:17pm
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One thing I don't get about all this countermeasures stuff:

If a person continually shows an abnormal response to a "relevant" question, despite a manipulation to the "control" questions, wouldn't that be a dead giveaway to an experienced polygrapher?

What I mean by "abnormal response" is an obvious reaction that is consistent throughout the exam.  A person who HAS used illegal drugs, for example, and lies about it, is really going to have much more of a response to that question than the polygrapher usually sees on that question.  If that strong response is consistent over the course of the whole examination, it seems to me that any polygrapher worth his salt would see that reaction despite the control question manipulations.  And don't polygraphers move the relevant questions around during the test so that you'd have to manipulate ALL of the control questions at the right time to get them to counter the obvious and consistent relevant question response?

Not only that, but wouldn't it appear strange to a polygrapher that not just one or two control questions "spike" off the chart, but that ALL of them do?  It's my understanding that people taking a polygraph usually are MUCH more concerned about one particular control question than the others, so I think that if all the control questions are showing very high reactions it might lead to suspicion.

About the "challenge" that is the topic of this thread, how would using simulated crimes in a lab setting prove anything anyhow?  And it's certainly not practical or even possible to take the "challenge" using real polygraphs, so the "challenge" isn't realistic.  No wonder the "challenge" is ignored.
« Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2005 at 9:58pm by »  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #130 - Feb 9th, 2005 at 9:35pm
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Sluggo wrote on Jun 25th, 2004 at 11:32pm:
This is a new response to an old posting you made on the antipolygraph message board (your message shoud be shown above, if I did this quote-paste thing right):

I'm a typical person, which is what you say polys are for, not the PhDs who can deface them, right?

No; poly don't work well, or there would not be such protest.  


I want you to hear my story; which I wouldn't bother telling you if it weren't true...

________
I initiated a poly to disprove an accusation a young woman made to my wife about a sexual act I allegelly conducted w/her.  I felt my only way to disprove it was to take a poly.

Confident, I contacted an attorney, and he set me up with one of the two BEST (i.e., highest credibility) poly examiners in the area.  I paid TOP dollar, because I didn't want any dispute as to the legitimacy of my results.  I paid $500 to the attorney and $600 to the examiner (I had been out of work for 6 mons by this time, and couldn't afford it, but what's money when it comes to the integrity of your name, right?).

I took the test and it showed 'deception' on the issue.  The poly operator (who had been a really nice guy until the pt when the results came back), got in my face and pointed his finger and said very forcefully, "You lied! Admit it! You touched that young woman didn't you?!".  I was floored.  I DID NOT TOUCH HER; I HAD TOLD THE TRUTH.  

I went home and told my wife I failed the poly.  She believes the girl and her accusations, and the poly... it has changed our marriage.

I can only hope that when my children grow older, I will be a credible enough figure in their lives that they believe me, though my wife doesn't.

Let me ask you this, since you're such a believer... do you think so many people would be involved w/the antipolygraph website if they didn't feel the injustice of polys??? Do you think they're ALL lyers w/nothing better to do???

False poly results can chng your life; don't you think that if polys can make such an impact on your life, they should be right... ALWAYS??? If you don't think they should always be right, are you acceptable to changing someone's life for the worse, as long as you get paid to do it???

Not a profession I could stomach.

Polys... don't do them if you're innocent.




Well, actually, is there ANY profession that is always right?  Doctors make mistakes.  Does that mean they should quit healing the sick because they don't have a perfect healing record?  Lawyers make mistakes--sometimes they successfully prosecute the innocent or unknowingly (yeah, I know, with defense attorneys it's less likely) help the guilty go free.  Should we can the legal system?  Cops make mistakes--they accidentally hurt someone or make a poor decision once in awhile.  Should we stop having them patrol our streets?  All--and I mean ALL parents make mistakes.  That's the most important job of all, don't you agree?  Should we sterilize everyone and stop making babies?

From everything I've read and heard, the polygraph machine is the best thing we have for finding out the truth at a much better-than-chance rate.  If it works the majority of the time, and the polygraphers are trained with a strictly certified training program and then policed with inspections and quality control checks, isn't it preferable to use it than to throw away the best tool available?

I know, you could come back and say, "Well, if it hurts one innocent person it's not worth catching most of the bad apples."  But with all the corruption problems we already have in law enforcement, I'd rather that a few "innocent" job-seekers be turned down based on a polygraph rather than that a whole lot more bad apples become cops.

Oh, and one more thing: A few more people on this forum need to play devil's advocate--it makes the forum better and stimulates both sides of the equation rather than simply having a bunch of disgruntled polygraph failures bitching and moaning to each other.
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #131 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 6:21pm
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1.      Attorneys get disbarred.
2.      Judges get removed from the bench.
3.      Police get fired and sometimes prosecuted.
4.      Parents loose there kids to social services.
 
   This argument has no merit, to keep using something that hurts 2 in 10, that are innocent of anything wrong.

Anal Sphincter says  " "Well, if it hurts one innocent person it's not worth catching most of the bad apples."  But with all the corruption problems we already have in law enforcement, I'd rather that a few "innocent" job-seekers be turned down based on a polygraph rather than that a whole lot more bad apples become cops.

  Come on Anal Sphincter, I have conducted many back ground investigations on officers for new hires, we have complete access to everything in there background. If they are a bad apple it will show during this process, I would hate to think I was the cause of someone who deserved to be an officer, and then denied him/her the chance over a polygraph test. We have been lied to about them for 80 years now.

So yes I really think they should completely outlaw there use. If we can spend 500 million dollars to send a probe to mars to take pictures of rocks, then surely they can design a reliable lie detector. 

  I would be willing to bet that Anal Sphincter was turned down at some point in his life when he applied for a career in law enforcement.

Devils advocate no thanks concerning this subject.      

  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #132 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 9:09pm
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anythingformoney wrote on Feb 9th, 2005 at 9:17pm:
About the "challenge" that is the topic of this thread, how would using simulated crimes in a lab setting prove anything anyhow?  And it's certainly not practical or even possible to take the "challenge" using real polygraphs, so the "challenge" isn't realistic.  No wonder the "challenge" is ignored.


That same argument can be used to refute the various "studies" that "prove" the polygraph's supposed validity.
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #133 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 9:31pm
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Now jeff your paying attention. That is my argument in a nut shell.
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #134 - Feb 12th, 2005 at 10:45pm
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Yes, Jeffery, you are right.  That's why I told Gino that throwing out references to studies would make us look like two people arguing over the meaning of an obscure Biblical passage.  However, I've read much of the literature cited on this website, and none of it can be supported as well as what I have cited myself.  Do my cited studies prove the polygraph to be 100% accurate?  Of course not.  But they are good evidence that it is a tool worth keeping, and that it's the best tool we have.  It does what it is supposed to do.

I have nothing against SOME of the arguments George and Company make; however, so much of what they say can't be backed up, AND they don't have any real-world experience to corroborate so many of their foolish claims.
  
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Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge

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