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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge (Read 344017 times)
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #90 - Oct 13th, 2003 at 8:44pm
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Hi,

Several years ago, I applied for a position with a Sheriff's department as a Civilian Prison Guard.  I was polygraphed, and the Detective FAILED me. 

The "problem" he cited was that my responses to questions regarding the use of illegal drugs (specifically Cocainne) had registered with a large 'swing'.  He claimed that he ran the test 'three times', and that I had the same 'swing' each time.

Anyway, I know that I have NEVER used any illegal drug of ANY type, especially not Cocainne. I am a very religious and honest person.  I have never committed a crime, and I still want to serve my community.

I contested the result via letters, and ultimately the Department denied my application because my "Credit Report" was not "up to standards".  The Drug "issue" never came up again.

Well, now I want to apply as a Reserve Deputy Sheriff in a different county, and they will require a Polygraph.

I have read the lie-behind-the-lie book, but I am not certain how to handle the next Polygraph Examination (since it will be a second time). 

I HATE the "test" because I know from first-hand experience that the thing is flawed.

What am I supposed to do???

Please help me figure this out.  I don't know of anyone other people I can ask.

Thank you in advance.

--Concerned
(withholding my name so I dont get denied on the application).


  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #91 - Oct 13th, 2003 at 8:50pm
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Concerned,

If I were in your shoes, I would use countermeasures to reduce the risk of a false positive outcome.

(Note that your post would have been better posted in a new message thread. This is done by clicking on the "New Thread" link in the upper right corner of the page.)
  

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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #92 - Oct 13th, 2003 at 9:09pm
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Ok,

thank you.

Also, I'm sorry about posting in this older (non-related) thread.

  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #93 - Jan 28th, 2004 at 9:39am
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Two Years of Cowardice from the Polygraph Community

I note that today, Wednesday, 28 January 2004, marks the second anniversary of Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge, and still no polygraph operator has displayed the courage to accept it. (Nor, to the best of my knowledge, has any polygrapher demonstrated any ability to reliably detect countermeasures in any other venue.)
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #94 - Feb 2nd, 2004 at 8:03pm
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??? im having to take a lie detector test because i was accused of do somthing i wont to know can the state gov make me take it. the court of arizona is making me take it i would like to know how do i not fail even if im telling the trulth
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #95 - Feb 7th, 2004 at 8:02pm
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How many polygraph exams has Dr Richardson conducted?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #96 - Feb 7th, 2004 at 8:42pm
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JB Dawson,

What relevance does the number of polygraph examinations that Dr. Richardson has administered have to do with the subject of this discussion thread, which is his challenge to the polygraph community to prove its claimed ability to detect countermeasures?

Are you willing to accept his challenge?
  

George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #97 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 6:31pm
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At one time you described him as an expert - so I thought it only logical as to inquire as to the number of exams Dr Richardson has conducted?
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #98 - Feb 8th, 2004 at 8:00pm
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JB,

Drew Richardson is most certainly a polygraph expert. His expertise derives not from years spent rolling polygraph charts, but rather through scientific research. His doctoral dissertation applied novel cardiovascular indices to a lie detection task, and he collected his research data at DoDPI, where he also completed the polygraph examiner basic course. Dr. Richardson also worked in the FBI's polygraph research unit and conducted a modest number of polygraph examinations in criminal investigations. The National Academy of Sciences' Committee to Review the Scientific Evidence on the Polygraph recognized his expertise when it invited him to make a presentation during its series of public meetings:

http://www.antipolygraph.org/nas/richardson-transcript.shtml

Dr. Richardson has also been recognized as an expert on polygraph matters in a variety of legal settings.

I repeat my question to you: are you willing to accept his challenge?
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #99 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 10:06pm
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Perhaps I will answer your question when you answer mine.  It was a simple question; however, in lieu of  answering it you choose to engage in a long drawn out discussion about the relevance of the question.  So, how many polygraph examinations has Dr. Richardson conducted?  The fact that nobody has accepted his challege to this point is not evidence to support your position that polygraph examiners can't detect countermeasures.
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #100 - Feb 10th, 2004 at 10:34pm
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JB,

Indeed, your question was simple. But I don't know exactly how many polygraph examinations Dr. Richardson has administered. I answered your question to the best of my ability when I mentioned that it was a "modest" number. What bearing does the number of polygraph examinations that Dr. Richardson has administered have on the relevance of his challenge, in your opinion?

I would agree with you that the fact that no one has thus far mustered the courage to accept Dr. Richardson's challenge is not dispositive evidence that polygraph examiners can't detect countermeasures, but I believe that it is strong circumstantial evidence that polygraph examiners have little confidence in their ability to do so.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #101 - Feb 12th, 2004 at 8:15pm
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George,

The relevance to my question may not have anything to do with his challenge; however, I hardly would consider a person an expert when they have only actually ran a "modest" number of "real" exams.  In my eyes, it's like your credibility...you've never actually employed countermeasures during a real exam and defeated it.  Therefore, although you are very intelligent on the subject of polygraph - you have no real world experience.  Your "evidence" that examiners can't detect countermeasures is dated and did not involve the use of examiners trained in countermeasures and how to deal with them.

Frankly I suspect that most examiners who are trained and experienced in managing examinees who employ countermeasures are not in a position that would allow them to accept the challenge.  For instance, if a Federal examiner was up to your challenge, realistically what are the chance their agency would allow them to participate in such a challenge?
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #102 - Feb 12th, 2004 at 9:35pm
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JB DAWSON,

Please sir... if polygraphers could win the challenge they would certainly trip over themselves lining up to beat Dr. Drew.

The argument that -mom won't let them come out to play- holds no water at all.

What about all the retired Fed polygraphers double dipping-  Where are they?
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #103 - Feb 12th, 2004 at 10:27pm
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Quote:
George,

...In my eyes, it's like your credibility...you've never actually employed countermeasures during a real exam and defeated it.  Therefore, although you are very intelligent on the subject of polygraph - you have no real world experience.


I am unaware of anyone who has used CM's in a real life situation and identified themselves - for obvious reasons.

Also, do you maintain that critics of homeopathy or chiropractic medicine must have been practitioners to make valid criticisms or observations?

As Stossel says, "give me a break."

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #104 - Feb 13th, 2004 at 3:40am
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suethem wrote on Feb 12th, 2004 at 9:35pm:
JB DAWSON,

Please sir... if polygraphers could win the challenge they would certainly trip over themselves lining up to beat Dr. Drew.

The argument that -mom won't let them come out to play- holds no water at all.

What about all the retired Fed polygraphers double dipping-  Where are they?


What makes you think just because a person may be a "retired Fed polygrapher" that the person is trained in how to deal with countermeasures?  What you mail fail to realize is that just because a person is a polygraph examiner (local, State, Federal) does not mean they have been trained how to manage people who try and employ countermeasures...  The reasearch that is often cited on this site established that examiners untrained in how to deal with countermeaures aren't able to reliably detect countermeasures - that is it.  It says nothing about examiners who are trained Smiley 


  
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