polygraph

[stefano]

Lex Luther of Polygraph

That's "The Lex Luthor of Polygraphy"; please don't misspell. And I would like to once again invite you and polyboy1 to step forward and accept the countermeasure challenge.

[polyboy1]

pailryder:  kind of like when the examinee is wasting HIS time when there is a "properly identified CM".

[Bill_Brown]

polyboy1 and pailryder,

It may be more useful to engage in meaningful debate and discussion without insulting others.  stefano is very aware of polygraph and its strengths as well as the weaknesses.  We can learn from this site and our opposition. 

[Twoblock]

Bill_Brown

I have been a member of this website every since its inception and have seen this insulting nature and, admittledy, been a part of it from the beginning. I love a good, intellgent debate. However, it seems that when one falls short, it evolves into insults and name calling. Pailryder has not been much of an insulting polygrapher. He mostly debates and asks intelligent questions. Invarialby, though, we all lose it at times. On the other hand, most polygraphers lose it just by reading the information here and immediately start attacking. It still amazes me that they let this website destroy their personality (if they ever had any) unless, of course, it is still presenting problems for them. Which, I suspect, is the case.

I usually don't debate the "technical aspects" of the polygraph because I don't know enough about it. I usually get involved when the insults and name calling starts.

My involvement with the polygraph started in the 1960's when I had to take one for employment. I had a friend, at that time, in medical school and he showed me how to raise my BP. He also said that the anxiety produced by the test would prevent passing. Anyway I passed even with lieing. One of the question I lied on was "do you intend on making this a long term employment"? It was a piddling job and I had no intention of staying there. Ever since that test, I have researched the poly and come up with NA for employment.

[George W. Maschke]

polyboy1, pailryder,

If my polygraph charts are indeed being circulated among polygraphers as examples of "classic countermeasures," then that is ironic because 1) the FBI averred that it was unable to locate my polygraph charts when I requested them under the Privacy Act and 2) I did not use countermeasures.

[pailryder]

It may be more useful to engage in meaningful debate and discussion without insulting others.stefano is very aware of polygraph and its strengths as well as the weaknesses.We can learn from this site and our opposition

Bill_Brown

I agree completely, and I did not intend, nor do I see any insult in my postings.  stefano chose "the Lex Luthor of Polygraph" for himself and I don't think my use of his choice is an insult.  Maybe a small dig, because it seems a bit grandiose, but not an insult.

If this site was dedicated to the reform of polygraph, rather than abolishion, we would have much more common ground for civil discussion.

I believe, as the late Dr. David Lykken once wrote, " No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers."

[stefano]

Maybe a small dig, because it seems a bit grandiose, but not an insult.

It may appear grandiose, but in reality, it's a very apt moniker I assure you.

It would seem most unprofessional for these "experts" to be gloating over possession of George's polygraph charts under the guise of using them as "training aids."

[Twoblock]

Bill_Brown

You see what I mean here?

polyboy1 and pailryder both has said that they have seen George's charts and that they are being used as training tools for polygraphers. I doubt if they will answer George. However, if they do and confirm the use then that is a strong indictment of the FBI as liars. Also a strong indictment of the agency as "Blacklisters". Isn't that a criminal offense?

Statements have been made here folks. Let's have some confirmation or retraction.

[Bill_Brown]

TwoBlock,

I understand the frustration, and can only suggest not responding to the sarcasm.  Polygraph examiners do get annoyed when trying to make a point and having the opposition attacking.  i personally don't get weighted with the emotion, I attempt to stay on subject. 

We do have some examiners that enjoy attack mode.  By monitoring this site and learning from individuals posts, I am able to become a better person and have learned to treat all with respect.  Many examiners I associate with are of the same nature.  We also learn from our mistakes. 

[pailryder]

stefano is very aware of polygraph and its strengths as well as the weaknesses.We can learn from this site and our opposition. 

Bill

Is this opinion based on personal knowledge or private conversations?  I have read all of stefano's postings and I failed to find any that mentioned polygraph's strengths.

[stefano]

Pailryder, If you have read all of my posts, you should have been able to glean that I am not concerned so much with the strengths or weaknesses of the polygraph technique, but rather that I don't wish to live in an America where people are wired up to Orwellian devices.

[pailryder]

stefano

I understand and share your concern for compelled testing.  Even though you may personally think it foolish, is there room in your America for people to contract for a private polygraph?   

[stefano]

is there room in your America for people to contract for a private polygraph? 

I will admit, if it were limited specifically to those who step forward with no external coercion that it would steal some of my fire. However, coercion can be subtle and take on many forms.

[pailryder]

stefano

My assumption, which I am sure you will correct if I am wrong, is that you have a great deal of experience interviewing patients and making theraputic assessments.  If so, in your practice have you found any difference between the interview of a person seeking treatment by his own decision and one compelled to treatment by a court, probation officer or other authority? 

[Sergeant1107]

it's not subjective, it's pretty obvious when someone is deliberately distorting the tracings;  "suspected" is not a whim, but it's just not confirmed by an admission;  we do exercise control (I don't know about "power";  maybe if those who read this site exercised their own "control and power" and went through the exam honestly, they wouldn't find themselves in this guy's predicament.

You seem to be assuming that the people who read this site are not going through the exam honestly.  While that is certainly true in some cases, it is certainly not true in all cases.

What do you tell the examinee who answers all questions honestly, does not withhold any information, and does not use or attempt countermeasures, but still is deemed deceptive or is accused of using CM's?

Unfortunately, I have not heard any satisfactory response to that situation.