breathing

[beezy]

does holding your breathe during control questions help as a counter measure?

[nomegusto]

Awe man. I want to be civil about answering your question. I truly do.  8-)
Ok...
Are you meaning like holding your breath underwater?  8-)
Lets think about this. If your going to hold your breath, how are you going to be able to answer a question? However if you try holding your breath, I'm quite certain the polygrapher will be able to detect it while your turning blue in the face...
I'm so sorry for the way I answered Beezy's question. I just couldn't help myself.  

Beezy honestly... Why use a countermeasure anyway? Is it worth getting caught? However, holding your breath is NOT a countermeasure, and the computer will show that your holding your breath. Good Luck!!!!

[beezy]

i mean holding my breath during the control questions and then start breathing again normally after i answer?  cuz i dont fully understand the control breathing.  i might be too nervous and start breathing erractically

[nomegusto]

Ok bro...
Holding your breath is a clear sign of CM's.
I don't advocate the usage of CM's. However I do advocate you going to the test prepared. The information on this site will tell you step by step of what to prepare for.
Why are you going to be tested for?

[beezy]

for a job but the thing is i used to do alot of illegal stuff when i was younger i never got caught.  now that i am older and i regret the stuff i did as a youth it will effect me getting the  job.  

[beezy]

altho that is a sign of cm will that help me pass if they dont detect it?  does biting the tongue actually work.  when should i bite my tongue during the actual control questions, before or after the control questions?

[nomegusto]

bro think about this. be honest about the stuff you did younger. if you lie, and are luckily enough to pass, and they find info about you during a BI your screwed... Ya gotta step up and be honest. how do you expect to be in a position of trust if you lie to get to that position... if you don't meet the requirements. look for a different profession...

[nomegusto]

I've NEVER used a CM during a polygraph. I've told the truth in every test I participated in. I'm NOT a polygrapher.
So, your gonna stop breathing, or cause yourself pain? For what??? Not worth it. Some will say they passed.
What did you do that was so bad? Was this before you were 18? How old are you now? Are you trying to become a law enforcement officer? Most pro polygraph guys/gals will tell you that they can detect counter measures, while the anti guys/gals say that they cant detect it. Honestly if your trying to get a job is it WORTH the chance of maybe getting caught.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd rather someone accuse me of lying instead of proving me a cheater.

[George W. Maschke]

Awe man. I want to be civil about answering your question. I truly do.  8-)
Ok...
Are you meaning like holding your breath underwater?  8-)
Lets think about this. If your going to hold your breath, how are you going to be able to answer a question? However if you try holding your breath, I'm quite certain the polygrapher will be able to detect it while your turning blue in the face...
I'm so sorry for the way I answered Beezy's question. I just couldn't help myself.  

Beezy honestly... Why use a countermeasure anyway? Is it worth getting caught? However, holding your breath is NOT a countermeasure, and the computer will show that your holding your breath. Good Luck!!!!

nomegusto,

You are dead wrong about breath-holding (after exhalation) not being a polygraph countermeasure. Referred to as "suppression" in the polygraph literature, it is perhaps the single most common scorable breathing reaction. Of course, to be effective as a countermeasure, it must be done timely with the control questions. See Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for more on this and other polygraph countermeasures.

beezy,

Although ready countermeasures to the polygraph are available, the polygraph community has no demonstrated ability to detect them, and truthful examinees might wisely choose to employ countermeasures to protect against the serious risk of a false positive outcome, applicants for positions of public trust have an ethical obligation to answer relevant questions truthfully.

[Sergeant1107]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd rather someone accuse me of lying instead of proving me a cheater.

Do you also believe that someone, unlike the original poster, who tells the truth on every answer during a polygraph exam but also consciously controls his breathing is "cheating"?

I think that a person's ethical responsibility is fulfilled if they are answering all the questions truthfully and not withholding any information.  If I choose to do math problems in my head it is nobody's business but mine.

[EJohnson]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd rather someone accuse me of lying instead of proving me a cheater.

Do you also believe that someone, unlike the original poster, who tells the truth on every answer during a polygraph exam but also consciously controls his breathing is "cheating"?

I think that a person's ethical responsibility is fulfilled if they are answering all the questions truthfully and not withholding any information.  If I choose to do math problems in my head it is nobody's business but mine.

Next time I am required to give a urine sample for analysis----you know, the sort of test that rarely but on occasion does give false readings if a person likes poppy seed bagels (yummy), I will hold my bladder---because under Sarge's reasoning, it is nobody's business what I do with my urinary track.  

p.s. Whether you are holding back urine or breath, it is "purposeful non-compliance" and the report will be labeled as such. Such a label taints people with a stink that stays around for a while.

[George W. Maschke]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd rather someone accuse me of lying instead of proving me a cheater.

Do you also believe that someone, unlike the original poster, who tells the truth on every answer during a polygraph exam but also consciously controls his breathing is "cheating"?

I think that a person's ethical responsibility is fulfilled if they are answering all the questions truthfully and not withholding any information.  If I choose to do math problems in my head it is nobody's business but mine.

Next time I am require to give a urine sample for analysis, I will hold my bladder---because under Sarge's reasoning, it is nobody's business what I do with my urinary track.  

Poor analogy. Urinalysis tests are based on sound science. Polygraph "tests" are not. Drew Richardson explained the difference in his discussion of scientific control and polygraphy during his presentation to the National Academy of Sciences' Committee to Review the Scientific Evidence on the Polygraph:

http://antipolygraph.org/nas/richardson-transcript.shtml#control

[nomegusto]

Happy Monday everyone. Hope we all had a great weekend. I wish I could figure out how to use the cute little quotes. LOL...

Here we go....
George
Beezy's original question was does holding your breath DURING a control question help as a counter measure? I stated the obvious. Thats it, and hope he takes the advice of chilling out before the test, and he'll pass.

Sarge:
Good seeing you again. If the subject is controling his breath consciously, and caught with no decent explanation why, then yeah I believe such person is purposly trying to alter the results of the test. However there is an exception. For example: You have members who've done swat, or special missions. In their training, there conditioned to use tactical breathing (combat breathing) when there in a stressful enviorement. The key word is that their conditioned for it. It's now subconcious. If they can explain the validy of what there doing, documentation etc etc. I don't think it'll count against them. I know, because this has happened to me. It was brought to my attention I was changing or trying to manipulate my breathing. I explained my actions, and we continued on with the tests...


Again, forget about the pros/cons of CM's. Because again the tester (especially if he/she is leo) will be looking for those danged NVI's. You can beat a machine, I'll agree to that. But you can't beat your subconcious... I think were foolish if anyone believes the only thing a polygrapher is looking at is a chart. I guarantee there looking at the examinee at the same time...

[Barry_C]

the polygraph community has no demonstrated ability to detect them

That's not true.  Perhaps it hasn't been done to your satisfaction, but who are you that we need to appease you?  Examiners here have told you that they catch them all the time.  We are poor at it according to the research, but that same research shows it doesn't matter.  The deceptive are still found deceptive.  The truthful, on the other hand, may well skew things in the wrong direction.

[Sergeant1107]

Next time I am required to give a urine sample for analysis----you know, the sort of test that rarely but on occasion does give false readings if a person likes poppy seed bagels (yummy), I will hold my bladder---because under Sarge's reasoning, it is nobody's business what I do with my urinary track.  

p.s. Whether you are holding back urine or breath, it is "purposeful non-compliance" and the report will be labeled as such. Such a label taints people with a stink that stays around for a while.

That's a very poor analogy.  If I agree to submit to a urine test I would have to give a urine sample.  If the person doing the testing also specified how I was to breathe and what I was to think about while I was urinating, I would have serious doubts about the validity of the test.  As would any reasonable person.  As long as I give the urine sample I am fulfilling my part of the test.  What I think about while I'm doing it is irrelevant.

If I agree to submit to a polygraph exam it is incumbent upon me to tell the truth, as it would be to any ethical person.  If I choose to recite poetry in my head or do long division in my head after each truthful answer, how is that behaving unethically?

I already know from experience that simply telling the truth is no guarantee of passing the polygraph.  If the test was accurate, it could determine truth or deception.  

Labeling me as "purposefully noncompliant" for what I am thinking?  That sure sounds like a guess to me.  Unless polygraph examiners have developed the ability to read minds.  And, if they did, they'd be able to determine that I was telling the truth, regardless of what I was thinking after the question...