Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge

[ContraTyrannos]

Are we to understand that one must have "legal merits" to comprehend the Constitution? Or are you simply one of those people who think that our natural rights flow from the power of government? We don't need anyone's blessing to speak our minds, sir. I think you would benefit from a careful reading of Bernard Bailyn's _Ideological Origins of the American Revolution_. What a small man you must be.

George,  Your warning against a wish for a lawsuit was telling.  

I would expect you would be encouraging such a lawsuit so your legal merits could shine through.  I feel this is not the case.  I think a lawsuit would bring this site and many of the true named supporters under some unwelcome scrutiny.  

[Trooper]

Thanks, George for your reply.

Duly noted and my post was moved to a new thread.

Thank you, sir.

[George W. Maschke]

As of today, 28 January 2006, Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge has now gone four years without a single taker!

[EosJupiter]

Its a great milestone George. Sure hope the APA or DODPI grows some nerve one of these days. In order for the APA to win the hearts and minds of the public they must first prove the polygraph is as good as they claim. Bet you get to year 5 and beyond without any takers.

Regards ....

[Fair Chance]

George,

They are both furious and scared of this site.  The polygraph, as performed by the DOD and API, needs its subject to be naive about the process for any chance of intimidation and confessions due to fear of the machine actually working.

They are furious because at the least, the test subject has no anxiety over the test because he is informed and knows the psychological techniques used.  Guess what gentlemen, SO DO ALL OF THE SPIES!!!!  

They are scared because they have invested so much of their personal prestige, money, time, and careers to have you display that such efforts are meaningless.

I just watched a National Geographic Episode recently where they were trying to save parrots from being captured in South America.   The interrogator had one of the suspects hold his GPS navigational device and through a translator told him it was a "lie-detector".  The subject "told the truth" not based on the results of the object but in his belief that the object was a lie detector.

I believe any scientific mind who accepts the polygraph machine as it is used today as being scientific is desperate for a job and desperate enough to "look the other way" to keep his job when confronted with ethical issues.

Regards

[Sergeant1107]

They are furious because at the least, the test subject has no anxiety over the test because he is informed and knows the psychological techniques used.  Guess what gentlemen, SO DO ALL OF THE SPIES!!!!  

This was clearly shown in the Aldrich Ames case, where he was advised by his handler to simply relax when taking his polygraph.  He did so and passed.  

Of course, according to the logic of many polygraph supporters who post here, anyone telling a polygraph subject to "relax" would be guilty of subverting national security and allowing pedophiles to roam the streets.

[EosJupiter]

Sergeant,

What is truly interesting is the development of this thread from its beginning till now. All 13 pages of this thread have one common point. All the polygraphers who come on it use the same tactic and or vailed story about how wrong and useless countermeasures really are. And now here we are 4 years later, really causing pain, grief and anxiety to the polygraph community.

George:

I think Drew needs to send another challenge to the new president of the APA. Maybe he has the stomach for the truth.

Regards ...

[Boston]

Some time ago (11/27/01) as part of a post largely dealing with DoDPI-sanctioned criteria for determining the presence of respiratory-channel response(s), I reiterated a challenge to the polygraph community that I had first made in a public presentation (10/17/01) to the National Academy of Sciences panel investigating the validity of polygraph screening.  That challenge (which has not yet been accepted or even really responded to) was made as follows:


Although I am happy for this basic format to be modified to a design having sufficient power to reasonably allow for reaching levels of statistical significance for any results obtained, I believe it is very important that this process and outcome(s) be publicly available and, if possible, covered by any interested media outlet.  I believe this is an appropriate time to renew this challenge for the following reasons: (1) It has languished far too long without a meaningful reply, (2) As we begin a new year, it will be interesting to see how far in the year we progress with those who promote CQT polygraph testing continuing to cower from the truth about its weaknesses, and (3) the current thread dealing with the validity of polygraph screening should be viewed in the light of realizing that any (I believe substantial) lack of validity of CQT polygraph testing in the absence of countermeasures is only greatly exacerbated with the application of properly applied countermeasures.

Your challenge has been addressed in a different string on this web site.

I believe the person responding was another examiner that stated he would take on the challenge under the conditions that if the examiner succeeded in beating the person making the challenge, that antipolygraph.org and it's rights would be turned over to him.

if the examiner failed you guys get bragging rights and his licenses and he would never run another test again.

I thought this was a fair acceptance and wager. But I have yet to see you step up.

Seems there is a lot of talk. This guy was going to put up and all other posters ragged him down until I guess he left. I Guess that is how people are silenced here. Would you are the "spy" be willing to put the web domain on line to prove your points or not.

If not, doesn't that make you bigger cowards then the "evil people" you hate so very much.

I will find you answer both entertaining and amusing.

[Boston]

Two days with no reply, I'm not shocked :-/

[Administrator]

Your challenge has been addressed in a different string on this web site.

I believe the person responding was another examiner that stated he would take on the challenge under the conditions that if the examiner succeeded in beating the person making the challenge, that antipolygraph.org and it's rights would be turned over to him.

if the examiner failed you guys get bragging rights and his licenses and he would never run another test again.

I thought this was a fair acceptance and wager. But I have yet to see you step up.

Seems there is a lot of talk. This guy was going to put up and all other posters ragged him down until I guess he left. I Guess that is how people are silenced here. Would you are the "spy" be willing to put the web domain on line to prove your points or not.

If not, doesn't that make you bigger cowards then the "evil people" you hate so very much.

I will find you answer both entertaining and amusing.

Boston's reference to "a different string on this website" seems to be to the following two passages, posted by ODIN with reference to Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge in the message thread "took the test" on 9 December 2005:

Put something on the table. If your minions fail there should be a price and that price should be antipolygraph.org and it's rights to be given up to the winning examiner.

and

The only begging I will hear some day is "Please don't take my web site". Because it is my mission now to not only make polygraph commonly admissable, but to take that chalenge and take this web site. If I don't I will give up my license and by then I will be bigger than Backster or Reid. That is my Goal.

Perhaps Boston's vivid recollection of these posts can be explained by the fact that both he and ODIN posted from the same IP address.

Dr. Richardson's polygraph challenge is not a wager. And in any event, Boston/ODIN seems unlikely to meet the preliminary qualification of being "from the ranks of federal polygraph instructors or operators, leading civilian polygraphers or any other group whose credentials and experience would be deemed impeccable in polygraph circles." (See the initial post in this message thread.)

Moreover, even if Dr. Richardson's challenge were a wager (which again, it is not), Boston/ODIN's polygraph license would be of little to no value to AntiPolygraph.org.

[EosJupiter]

Two days with no reply, I'm not shocked :-/

Can you say !!! BUSTED !!!!!!!

I thought those posts a familiar odor !!!

Guess you were deamed deceptive (DI) again ODIN.

   

[Boston]

Can you say !!! BUSTED !!!!!!!

I thought those posts a familiar odor !!!

Guess you were deamed deceptive (DI) again ODIN.

 

 I believe that smell would be the smell of a cop out.

You copped out then, you cop out now.

Any reason you can I guess.

Nice!!!!!!!!

Well Guess you guys can or won't put your money where your mouth is.

Easy to talk big behind insults.

By the way, I wouldn't have posted at all if I didn't expect to be outed. I am not stupid.

You guys out Federal Agents by posting names.

You give care and comfort to the enemy by telling Muslim extremists how to beat the polygraph.

You guys are brave behind your little walls.

Well Mr. Spy I guess you showed what you are made of. It's now public, you guys won't back up your talk.

Threatened by little old me...

You guys had your chance to step up to the plate.

I doubt even it I was a leader in the private sector, that you would step up to the plate.

If I am wrong then put it on the table, maybe someone more worthy will pick up the sword.

Or is that what you want to avoid?

Clock is still ticking.

I won't be yelled down this time.

What has it been 3 maybe 4 days now.

Little poodles pretending to be bulldogs. If your are so very confident then come out and play. If no one takes it then you guys look bigger, but then if you do you risk being exposed.

By the way George Patriot act was renewed.... Worried? You should be, I
would think.

[George W. Maschke]

Boston,

You have little to complain about regarding Dr. Richardson's countermeasure challenge. First, you never accepted it (and you are in no position to change the terms). Second, it is evident that you lack the requisite credentials.

However, as it is a wager you seek, see my response to your suggestion that such a wager be mediated by Penn & Teller here.

 

[G Scalabr]

Second, it is evident that you lack the requisite credentials.

As a reminder to those viewing this thread, the credentials were specified by Dr. Richardson to preempt what would surely be the response from the polygraph cognoscenti subsequent to someone like Odin/Boston going down in flames.

They will simply and predictably hoist the "examiner inexperience" flag up the pole, tell us once again about how the test is only as good as the examiner, and that a true polygraph professional would have easily detected the countermeasures.

Without putting this anticipated shenanigan on the sideline beforehand, the whole point of the challenge would be worthless, no?

[Boston]

Boston,

You have little to complain about regarding Dr. Richardson's countermeasure challenge. First, you never accepted it (and you are in no position to change the terms). Second, it is evident that you lack the requisite credentials.

However, as it is a wager you seek, see my response to your suggestion that such a wager be mediated by Penn & Teller here.

My terms are clear.

Besides I thought I wasn't good enough for you, and is your wager open to ALL examiners to take?