Family Overseas and CIA decision

[opp]

I was wondering if having close relatives residing overseas is an automatic denial for a top-secret clearance with the CIA. I mean half-sisters and one of your parents.
 
The country is considered non-hostile to the U.S. I passed the CIA polygraph and my BI has now gone to adjudication. I am concern about my foreign national relatives; I even declared on my foreign contact form that I had told two of my relatives about my future employment with the Agency; any thoughts will be appreciated.  
 
Opp

[longtimelistener]

Hey Opp,

I have wondered about the same thing.  I have a half-sister who is (actually...she just became a U.S. citizen) a foreign national and was wondering if that would affect the adjudication.

As far as your foreign national family members knowing, when I first got my COE I called someone at the CIA to see if it was okay if I told my half-sister.  The guy I talked to said he called the security department and they said it was okay to tell her (she has lived in the U.S. essentially her whole life and was in the process of applying for citizenship, so maybe that's why they gave it the okay).  That being said, depending on your circumstances, I think it could be okay that your family members know about your future employment.

And as far as the security clearance goes, this is a little more unclear.  I know the CIA explicitly says that spouses must be U.S. citizens, but they hardly mention other immediate family members.  This website has a list of DOD security clearance cases that were initially rejected then appealed: http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/.  There are a number of rejected cases due to family members being foreign nationals.  Also, I know the State Department recommends that people seeking TS/SCI clearances generally need to have all immediate family members (parents, siblings, etc.) be U.S. citizens.

Of course, each department and agency has slightly different guidelines and standards, but I would think that if other government agencies take issue with foreign national family members, that issue would at least raise red flags with the CIA.

So, I guess what I am saying is that I don't know what affect it will have.  I don't think it's an automatic denial, but I do think it could ultimately matter, depending on the circumstances in your case.

[opp]

longtimelistener,

I appreciate the information. I think that if I get rejected, it will be due, in part, to my relatives abroad. I had no problems with the CIA polygraph which I passed on the first try. I regret telling some of my overseas relatives about my future CIA employment. The examiner never made my foreign relatives an issue, and I even told him that I had told my half-sister and mother about it employment with the CIA. How long has it been since your BI went to the adjudicator? Why don't you call them? I have talk to my security officer several times and she has given me updates.

Opp

[longtimelistener]

Hey Opp,

Believe me, I have been calling my program officer almost non-stop.  I received my COE Feb. 2005, completed my poly/med in May 2005, and went into adjudication early June 2005.  So I've been in adjudication since last June.  

I've been calling every 4 weeks or so (I call every 2-3 weeks now), asking for an update and why it's taking so long.  Each time I call, my program officer says the same thing--that there is nothing in my file that she can see that is "abnormal", and that my wait is typical, due to a backlog in the security department.

I too passed my poly on my first attempt, and I have a relatively clean record, so I'm not sure what the hold up is.

Opp, how long have you been in adjudication?  And has your program officer been able to clarify why your wait is what it is?

Thanks,

HTH

[opp]

longtimelistener,

My paperwork just went into adjudication. I know this is going to be a long wait, perhaps 5 or 6 months; this is in addition to the 14 months I have been involved in the process. I was just reading the clearance appeals on the above link and I think that my chances may not be that bad after all since my relatives are in a Latin American country.

If we both passed the CIA polygraph examination, which is perhaps the most stringent of all, I think that we are in a good position for employment with them. If they had doubts about our foreign relatives at the time of the examinations, I guess they could have failed us then. But, it is the CIA and they are very reluctant to give away the keys to the agency.

[longtimelistener]

I agree.  And it does seem that most of the "foreign influence" cases on that website involve close family members from countries that are obviously threats to the U.S.

And it is good that we passed the poly first time, which seems to be a pretty difficult thing to do.  Even the fact that we entered adjudication is a good sign, since they do one last suitability screening before adjudication.

So all-in-all, things are probably okay, it's just waiting so long makes your mind analyze and over-analyze everything...

uggggh...

[opp]

longtimelistener,

Do you know if a CIA rejection for a top secret can be appleal in court? Perhaps, George would know better.  

[George W. Maschke]

opp,

I looked into this question when appealing the Army's revocation of my security clearance (shortly after I co-founded AntiPolygraph.org). It appears that security clearance determinations are not reviewable by the courts.

[opp]

George.,
 Thanks, but per the link above, it looks like people have appealed the rejections and many were overturned when they went before a judge. Are they only limitted to contractors?

[George W. Maschke]

opp,

The Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals (DOHA) website provides decisions on contractor cases only. Although DOHA judges hear appeals not only by contractors but also by members of the armed forces as well as Department of Defense employees, decisions concerning the latter are not available on-line. Note also that the "judges" who hear these cases are administrative law judges, that is, employees of the executive branch of government, as opposed to "real" judges (employees of the judicial branch).

[kockstar]

 I know the CIA explicitly says that spouses must be U.S. citizens,

thats only for operatives/field agents... that doesnt apply to all other positions.

[NSAreject]

Opp,

  I am a contractor to the CIA, and hold active Secret and current Top Secret clearances.  When filling out my SF86, I had to list all immediate family members, including my deceased Parents, living Brother, and my wife's deceased Mother and living Father, as US citizens.  My boss married a foreign national and had to get a, "letter of compelling need", in order to get his clearance (but, I think he has a, "green badge").  My Brother's in-laws have business overseas and he had a real difficult time getting into NSA, as a contractor.

I believe that Kockstar is incorrect, in his assertion that this only applies to certain assignments/cases. Intel agencies require that spouses and immediate family members be US citizens - this is not the case for vanilla DoD clearances.  This is a very strict requirement.   Unlike the DoD, there are no courts/judges, that appeals can go forward.  

[kockstar]

I believe that Kockstar is incorrect, in his assertion that this only applies to certain assignments/cases. Intel agencies require that spouses and immediate family members be US citizens - this is not the case for vanilla DoD clearances.  This is a very strict requirement.   Unlike the DoD, there are no courts/judges, that appeals can go forward.  

i currently hold a TS/SCI as well.. My wife is a philippine national. I have many friends as well who work for NRO, Contractors, DOD, NSA .... all who have philippine or japanese wives..  Its not a strict requirment at all. you just need to get them cleared as well... submitt an SF-86 for the spouse.

[Onesimus]

i currently hold a TS/SCI as well.. My wife is a philippine national. I have many friends as well who work for NRO, Contractors, DOD, NSA .... all who have philippine or japanese wives..  Its not a strict requirment at all. you just need to get them cleared as well... submitt an SF-86 for the spouse.

Are you this kockstar?

[kockstar]

Are you this kockstar?

wtf are you even talking about here?