Polygraphs in Sex Offender Treatment

[kingjames]

I am a registered offender .  I was told last night in my therapy group that I will have to submit to polygraphs twice a year.  This is a new development in group, not something initially established when I started this program.  This has to be some violation of civil liberties, but the word for the ACLU is that they can do pretty much what they want, especially if it falls under the 'therapy' umbrella.  Oh yeah, I also have to pay for the test, hundreds of dollars.

[gelb disliker]

In the eyes of society, you got it pretty well off.  You won't find too much sympathy in this forum about being a SO.

[George W. Maschke]

In the eyes of society, you got it pretty well off.  You won't find too much sympathy in this forum about being a SO.

Considering that we know neither kingjames' offense nor the punishment he has received for it, I think we are in no position to judge whether he "got it pretty well off."

In any event, governmental reliance on such quackery as polygraphy under the guise of "therapy" should be of concern to all.

[dimas]

Considering that we know neither kingjames' offense nor the punishment he has received for it, I think we are in no position to judge whether he "got it pretty well off."

In any event, governmental reliance on such quackery as polygraphy under the guise of "therapy" should be of concern to all.

George,

In this case of kingjames, he was technically already found guilty and I am assuming that he is currently on some type of probation or parole.  Let's remember that this is in lieu of doing jail or prison time and therefore he is subject to whatever restrictions or test they may want to subject him to.  

I also realize that many people who have been found guilty may indeed be innocent or merely pleaded guilty to avoid a costly trial and a more severe charge.

While in the context of sex offenders, I really do not think that in society there is a more vile type of offender, granted some sex offenders technically had sex with their high school girlfriend who was one year younger than them and they now have to deal with the label of sex offender, but these cases are far and few.  

As for governmental reliance on the polygraph for sex offender monitoring, it is merely another tool to keep these people in line and from re-offending.  While I have my reservations about polygraphy as a pre-employment tool, it is a completely different animal when you talk about monitoring individuals who have already been convicted and NEED to be monitored as closely as possible.  If I recall the estimate is that most child molestors had molested 30-50 times prior to being caught.  To keep an eye on these creeps I would even be all for the reading of "tea leaves" if it meant it would keep even one of these guys from touching another child.

Just my 2 cents, but for once I have to agree with gelb disliker and re-state that he isn't going to get much sympathy in this forum.

[kingjames]

I'm not looking for sympathy, just trying to find out how much is too much.  It seems to me that if a polygraph is not an absolute science then it is a waste of time for all involved.  

Say they give me a poly and the test says I am lying.  What is their recourse?  They could monitor me more, restrict me more, but other than that what else?  Seems like over doing it for a low level offender.

I reached this website in an effort to find my rights as well as to get more info. as to what to expect.  

[gelb disliker]

KingJames,

  this is a website that is anti-polygraph.  i believe the mission is to finally abolish the polygraph altogether.  like all things in life, it'll take some time.  
  of course, it seems that your conditions of therapy will have you admit to taking a polygraph.  i don't believe you are able to refuse this at this time in your life.  especially if it falls under the category of "therapy."
   we don't feel that a polygraph is anything but quackery, but at this point it is still being used to "monitor" activities.   unless you have a PO or therapist following you around, this is what they feel would "control" you.  
  polygraph examiners base their findings and conclusions on your fear of them and their machines.  so it would be best to read up on Mr Maschke's book, to better prepare yourself for their illusions called the polygraph.

[lizardman]

I am a registered sex offender also and served 12 years in prison for my conviction, although i was innocent, no one wants to listen.  I was accused of molesting my daughter and i daughter will tell you it was all untrue.  however, i did 12 years in prison.  Now on parole, the agent demands me to take a polygraph for therapy.  the therapy demands i sign waivers to be tested and one of the tests is poloygraph.  The therapist insists that the program is "voluntary" but when i refused the program (mainly because the parole officer sit in the therapy, negating it's therapeutic value)  I was told either to sign the paper voluntarily or be subject to a parole violation and sent back to prison.
I used the information at this site with the premise that "tis not deceit to deceive the deceiver"  The information at this site told me exactly everything that was going to happen.  To my surprise it was like I read the whole script at my polygraph test.  Not only was the polygrapher trying to be my friend, they told me I failed the test miserably and then tried to extract a confession.  Sorry, but I cannot confess to something I did not do.  I really dont give a damn if I dont get any sympathy from this forum, the main focus is the voodoo science utilized and how the California Department of Corrections has ganged up with therapist to extract confessions.  Confess or be sent back to prison.  What kind of society are we living in?  I did my time so dont try and say i got off easy.

[mksdk]

What kind of society are we living in?  It (the USA) is an evolving totalitarian police state, it seems to me.

Despised minorities such as convicted sex offenders are the first to be brutalized, followed eventually by the average Joe.

Millions of corpses later, the whole thing self-immolates and whoever's left does their best to patch together a new society.

[digithead]

What kind of society are we living in?  It (the USA) is an evolving totalitarian police state, it seems to me.

Despised minorities such as convicted sex offenders are the first to be brutalized, followed eventually by the average Joe.

Millions of corpses later, the whole thing self-immolates and whoever's left does their best to patch together a new society.

To draw parallels between people who have been convicted of a sex crime and people who are persecuted because of race, ethnicity or gender is inane...

The use of the polygraph with sex offenders is driven by a societal need to prevent future offending. I oppose the polygraph because it's pseudoscience and gives a false sense of security that these criminals are being adequately monitored. But however flawed the current methods of supervision, sex offenders should be monitored because they have demonstrated the fact that they are a threat to society. How we monitor them is an empirical question where answers to it should be based in science rather than wishful thinking...

Rather than bemoan the fact that you're being supervised and surveilled, how about taking responsibility for the reason why you're in this situation, then maybe you can start to fix whatever is wrong with you...

[kingjames]

Are all sex offenders the same?  Would you consider the 21 year old who slept with his 16 year old girlfriend the same type of offender as the rapist who stalks children at the local playground?  Both have been classified sex offenders but clearly they are totally different people, with a different "offense".

[digithead]

Are all sex offenders the same?  Would you consider the 21 year old who slept with his 16 year old girlfriend the same type of offender as the rapist who stalks children at the local playground?  Both have been classified sex offenders but clearly they are totally different people, with a different "offense".

Firstly, your question misdirects away from my point. I didn't differentiate among the sex crimes because monitoring and surveilling of sex offenders (whatever type of sex crime they've been convicted of) is something that is decided by legislators. When you're tasked with coming up with a monitoring plan, you classify offenders through various means (psychometric, past history, likelihood to reoffend, etc.) so that you can devote your time to the most serious offenders.

Secondly, your question is silly. What if the 16-year-old was developmentally disabled, drunk, or otherwise impaired? In addition, age of consent laws come into play and I'm not familiar with all of the state statutes in the U.S. but the typical age of consent is 16 so your example is also ill-formed. What if in your example the male was 50, do you consider a sexual relationship between a 50-year-old male and a 16-year-old female wrong? What about an 18-year-old male and a 13-year-old female? What if they were brother and sister or father and daughter? Again, the acts that are deemed criminal are decided by our elected officials. If you have a problem with a particular act being classified as a crime, take it up with your local representative.

As for monitoring a 21-year-old man who has been convicted of statutory rape, it would depend on his past criminal record, whether or not he has been classified as a Level I, II, or III sex offender, and other predictive factors.

I'll turn the question to you since you're so outraged that a 21-year-old man who's been convicted of statutory rape would be monitored. What should the age of consent be? 15? 14? 11? Where do we draw the line between adulthood and childhood?

[palerider]

Psychometric, past history, risk to reoffend?? Psychometric tools are valuable but pretty nebulous, don't you think? Past history? Just how do you go about ascertaining the ACTUAL prior history? Risk? Are we talking about the Abel assessment(?)------a tool to identify arousal, not behavior. I simply do not see how your battery of risk assessment is any more effective than one that includes polygraph among the other components. Why not use them all? If the Abel contradicts poly, or any number of combinations, than take note.

Incidentally, the Abel assessment is a test which also has a degree of susceptibility to countermeasures. The countermeasures for Abel will not "fool" the test, but will create obvious distortions, and subsequent difficulty of scoring. Sound familiar? TLBTLD is nothing more than a guide to goof around, and skew the results rather than so-called "beating the test."  

[ecchasta]

How many poly supporters would let their daughter accept a ride from a stranger who had just "passed" a polygraph test that determind that they were being truthful when they said they would not harm her in any way?

I wouldn't.

[palerider]

Nor would I, a polygraph Examiner. No child's safety is or should be put into risk by a polygraph test that at it's very best accuracy (97%?) would be 3% short of being trustworthy (I have 3 young children.) Similarly, you will find that even oncologists who treat their family members will get a second and third opinion on a positive biopsy. Again I say that at no time does a "passed poly" sex offender on parole/probation EVER get the green light, or get ignored/unmonitored.

[ecchasta]

"No child's safety is or should be put into risk by a polygraph test that ...."

But isn't the point of follow-up polygraphs of SO's exactly that.  If you don't trust polygraphy in the case of someone that you have no reason to suspect is an offender, then what's the point of applying it to a convicted SO?  Why trust it for them?