Failed a CVSA a few times

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 03:21 AM

its a long story a sad story. i worked for a county as a jailer at night. there was some monies (120.00) stolen from a suspect i had booked in.
i was told that if i took the CVSA it would clear my name.
it just happens that that day, i lost my day job that payed very well. i told them that i never been so stressed in my life, as i was at that point.
don't worry, i was told just do the test and you will be cleared.
i went down to take the test. i had to do a trial test, then the real thing. no go....so i had to take it again.no go again.
at this point i was really freaked out. so they gave me the option of taking the test the next day.
i did a "trial" test that was fine...then the real test...no go.
the tester told me that "the test was inconclusive"
so i was forced to resign from the department.
that was in March 2004, then in October 2004 it turns out they found the person who stole the money! she made off with like 15,000.00
i have no faith in these things and the more i read about them...i doubt them even more.

TN_Cop · Dec 26, 2004, 03:17 PM

1. You cant lose your job because of the failure of a CVSA test, seek a lawyer.

2. There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive. Seek a lawyer.

3. The CVSA tests are only as good as the operator and its only a tool to assist in the interview of subjects.

4. Before George W. Maschke our especially senior user has the chance to say it I will, CVSA is not capable of lie detection. It, as so named, is a voice stress analyzer which is just another tool for the interviewers.

Sorry about your luck
TN Cop

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 04:27 PM

hmm thanks for the info...
its water under the bridge now...
the sheriff wrote me a great letter of reference.

George W. Maschke · Dec 26, 2004, 04:39 PM

county26,

It is to be hoped that the sheriff has also learned how stupid it is to rely on the results of a CVSA "test." He might just as well have consulted a Magic 8-Ball.

TN Cop,

Don't you see the contradiction between your statement that CVSA results are either "deceptive" or "non-deceptive" and your admission that CVSA is not capable of lie detection?

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 04:46 PM

i could of pushed it i guess....however like i said i was never so stressed as i was....in my entire life...i lost one dream job then lost my other dream job...working for the county....yea it was just as a jailer...but i loved my job...
now the whole county knows the truth...
they were audited by the state....

George W. Maschke · Dec 26, 2004, 04:57 PM

county26,

I'm glad you were able to obtain a favorable letter of reference from the sheriff, and wish you all the best in finding the job of your choice. Under the circumstances, shouldn't you be eligible for re-hire by the county?

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 05:03 PM

yes they probably would rehire me, however i had moved 300 miles to get the job with the county and when stuff hit the fan i moved back to my original place.
i don't feel like relocating again. i am currently trying to acquire a position with the local county.

George W. Maschke · Dec 26, 2004, 05:09 PM

I'm sorry that unfounded suspicion based on an invalid test has had such a disruptive impact on your life. I hope your local county doesn't require one to pass a "lie detector" test (whether CVSA or the polygraph) as a condition of employment. If it does, see The Lie Behind the Lie Detector for tips on how to pass. Although this e-book does not directly address CVSA, the "behavioral countermeasures" presented in Chapter 4 will be helpful in any interview/interrogation.

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 05:12 PM

up untill now i never had anything to hide.
however i will never take one again, either the polly or cvsa.
i will get the book, to read....just for my info...
thanks for the post...i wish i would of found this site along time ago...

George W. Maschke · Dec 26, 2004, 05:26 PM

Unfortunately, it seems that governmental reliance on lie detectors is growing, rather than shrinking, despite the overwhelmingly negative recent findings of the National Academy of Sciences in its report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection, which also addresses voice stress analyzers. Depending on where you live, you might have little choice about whether or not to submit to a lie detector test if you want to work in public safety.

I hope you might consider helping us to spread the word about lie detectors to others before they become victims. For example, if you participate in any other message boards, please consider mentioning the information available here (it's all free) if the subject of lie detectors comes up. For additional ideas, see our Get Involved page.

If we are to put an end to misplaced governmental reliance on lie detectors, we need to make those who are subject to it aware that it's a fraud.

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 26, 2004, 06:23 PM

sound like a good idea. i will put a link on my website for this board. i am active in alot of stuff on the net...and i get alot of hits.
if this county here requires a test i will simply quit.
the whole thing makes me sick.

G Scalabr · Dec 27, 2004, 01:19 AM

QuoteCounty26: Sounds like a good idea. I will put a link on my website for this board.

This would be much appreciated. External links (the number of Websites that find a particular site worthy of a link) influence Google rankings tremendously. If you could link the home page (instead of the message board), it would go a long way toward helping us keep our #1 ranking.

Thanks again, and all the best in the New Year.

TN_Cop · Dec 27, 2004, 03:36 AM

George,

Thats just the way the tests are classified, "deceptive" or "non-deceptive". The point being there isnt a classification for a CVSA test as being "inconclusive" Its not a lie detector and you can show deceptive with the CVSA without lying. Hell you can classify the tests "stressed" or "non-stressed" and its still a useful tool and does the same thing.

It amazes me how much hatred you have towards these machines and their uses. Sure some people get screwed because some of the examiners dont know how to affectivly use the tools but I would bet more times than not these machines are used to illicit confessions and admissions from very undersirable people who have commited the crime or have done whatever they are accused of doing.

I have one more questions, are you certified as an examiner in either the CVSA or the polygraph? Did you or someone you love fail one of these tests and it change your life? I am curious to know where your hatred comes from.

Thanks,
TN Cop

George W. Maschke · Dec 27, 2004, 06:16 AM

TN Cop,

You write among other things:

QuoteSure some people get screwed because some of the examiners dont know how to affectivly [sic] use the tools...

People get screwed not just because of examiner incompetence, but because the exam itself is without validity. The "National Institute of Truth Verification" (NITV) and the community of CVSA operators are complicit in promoting public belief in a lie (the notion that CVSA can detect deception). How many CVSA devices would NITV be able to sell to government agencies at $10,000-a-pop if they were to honestly explain that CVSA can neither detect deception nor "verify the truth" and in fact has no scientific basis at all? How many city councils would approve the expenditure of taxpayer dollars for CVSA devices and training if the public safety officers who sought them were to truthfully explain that the device is no more accurate than a coin toss?

I am neither a CVSA nor a polygraph operator. I'm just a concerned citizen. My concerns about lie detection (and discovery that it is a fraud) began when I was falsely accused of deception during an FBI pre-employment polygraph examination. For an account of that experience, see my statement, "Too Hot of a Potato: A Citizen-Soldier's Encounter with the Polygraph."

er235352345tarq23r41234 · Dec 27, 2004, 10:19 AM

Quote from: TN_Cop on Dec 26, 2004, 03:17 PM1. You cant lose your job because of the failure of a CVSA test, seek a lawyer.

2. There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive. Seek a lawyer.

3. The CVSA tests are only as good as the operator and its only a tool to assist in the interview of subjects.

4. Before George W. Maschke our especially senior user has the chance to say it I will, CVSA is not capable of lie detection. It, as so named, is a voice stress analyzer which is just another tool for the interviewers.

Sorry about your luck
TN Cop

i was just thinking about this....
There is no inconclusive tests concerning the CVSA, they are either deceptive or non deceptive.
so that either means that the test was non deceptive (cause they found out who took the money).
and or they were trying to get a negative result.
cause i looked guilty as hell.
now i am getting really pissed. i am half temped to publish where and when i took the test. maybe i am not the only one who got screwed over by this guy.
He told me that he has been a tester for many years...
he told me how many test he has given...i think it was like 4,000...but dont quote that...it was alot....
i am wondering if the tester is just a dork.
i hope that the gal that stole all that money from the jail gets hers....

Failed a CVSA a few times

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