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Posted by polyfool
- Apr 13, 2005, 11:27 PMExFBIRecruit:
When you write your appeal letter make sure to include your polygrapher's name and everything he did and said to you. Even if you don't get a second test (which you wouldn't pass anyway,) at least your letter will provide some context for why you admitted to something you didn't do. I never really believed in false confessions until I was exposed to a situation similiar to yours. I understand how tempting it is when a poly examiner tells you that everything will be okay if you just admit to what he wants. The mind games can be very powerful, especially when you don't know what you are getting yourself into w/ the poly and blindly believe that all you have to do is tell the truth. I, too was falsley accused of selling drugs, but refused to give in to the examiner's pressures. You shouldn't beat yourself up about your false admission. It sounds like your poly examiner used every dirty trick in the book. Not all examiners are created equal, which is why others shouldn't criticize you without having been in your exact situation. Polygraphs are biased against the very truthful. Write your letter and move on with your job search. It will make you feel better. Would you really want to work for an agency that uses this trashy, so-called test procedure to choose its employees? Good luck and try not to let it get the best of you.
When you write your appeal letter make sure to include your polygrapher's name and everything he did and said to you. Even if you don't get a second test (which you wouldn't pass anyway,) at least your letter will provide some context for why you admitted to something you didn't do. I never really believed in false confessions until I was exposed to a situation similiar to yours. I understand how tempting it is when a poly examiner tells you that everything will be okay if you just admit to what he wants. The mind games can be very powerful, especially when you don't know what you are getting yourself into w/ the poly and blindly believe that all you have to do is tell the truth. I, too was falsley accused of selling drugs, but refused to give in to the examiner's pressures. You shouldn't beat yourself up about your false admission. It sounds like your poly examiner used every dirty trick in the book. Not all examiners are created equal, which is why others shouldn't criticize you without having been in your exact situation. Polygraphs are biased against the very truthful. Write your letter and move on with your job search. It will make you feel better. Would you really want to work for an agency that uses this trashy, so-called test procedure to choose its employees? Good luck and try not to let it get the best of you.
Posted by NSAreject
- Apr 13, 2005, 08:59 AMBrandon,
After reading through the posts on
polygraphplace.com, it is easy to see how a naive
person would get suckered into trusting polygraphers;
it is a sick little club of liars, deceivers, and
manipulators. It is ironic how NSA security preaches
unquestioned loyalty and integrity, while their
polygraphers represent just the opposite; just look at
the type of posts, left here by Anal Sphincter. I am so
glad, that I am now miles away from them, figuratively
speaking. It is also ironic, that many NSA employees
had to learn the same type of tactics, to survive their
own disfunctional childhoods. I wonder how many NSA
employees have done research on polygraphs on the
Internet - they would be too damn scared (but, I bet
they look at their share of pornography
) ! Maybe,
I should rename my alias to, rejectNSA...
After reading through the posts on
polygraphplace.com, it is easy to see how a naive
person would get suckered into trusting polygraphers;
it is a sick little club of liars, deceivers, and
manipulators. It is ironic how NSA security preaches
unquestioned loyalty and integrity, while their
polygraphers represent just the opposite; just look at
the type of posts, left here by Anal Sphincter. I am so
glad, that I am now miles away from them, figuratively
speaking. It is also ironic, that many NSA employees
had to learn the same type of tactics, to survive their
own disfunctional childhoods. I wonder how many NSA
employees have done research on polygraphs on the
Internet - they would be too damn scared (but, I bet
they look at their share of pornography
) ! Maybe,I should rename my alias to, rejectNSA...
Posted by polyscam
- Apr 13, 2005, 02:59 AMExfbirecruit said
I had the same stance prior to my poly. I was under the assumption that the truth would stand guard. I too was very wrong. However, I made no admissions to acts which I had not committed as I knew such a false admission would be nothing but damaging. It sounds as though your poly artist completed his work as he was trained. He backed you into a corner. Just know that the shame is all his own.
NSAreject said
A polygraph artist a liar? The hell you say
. Integrity is the word the poly artists preach. Although, I don't believe they know the definition. Just take a look at the folks at polygraphplace. They speak from both sides of their mouths. They are quite humorous though.
-Brandon
Quotewith absolutely no poly knowledge or experience I wasn't worried at all.
I had the same stance prior to my poly. I was under the assumption that the truth would stand guard. I too was very wrong. However, I made no admissions to acts which I had not committed as I knew such a false admission would be nothing but damaging. It sounds as though your poly artist completed his work as he was trained. He backed you into a corner. Just know that the shame is all his own.
NSAreject said
QuoteSince my last guy denied
knowing about counter-measures, does that classify him as a liar, with no integrity (do any of them have an
ounce of integrity)
A polygraph artist a liar? The hell you say
. Integrity is the word the poly artists preach. Although, I don't believe they know the definition. Just take a look at the folks at polygraphplace. They speak from both sides of their mouths. They are quite humorous though.-Brandon
Posted by exFBIRecruit
- Apr 13, 2005, 01:15 AMPillpopper,
fair enough! I will definitely admit weakness in that moment because for someone that figured that he had nothing to hide so the poly and the background were just formalities, I thought that my philosophy should be to cooperate at all costs. I wanted to come in, do what the FBI told me and move on to the next level. I thought I had made it past the hard stuff with Phases 1 and 2. I sure wish that I had found this web site before my poly because with absolutely no poly knowledge or experience I wasn't worried at all.
I realize now after reading TLBTLD that this guy might as well have been reading from the DDoPI training manual. He even used the exact statements that were supposed to appear as random statements, i.e.. "tell me what's on your mind" etc etc.
My crime here was naivety, but in the end I am sure glad that this experience has opened my eyes to the kind of people that are in charge of our national security!
fair enough! I will definitely admit weakness in that moment because for someone that figured that he had nothing to hide so the poly and the background were just formalities, I thought that my philosophy should be to cooperate at all costs. I wanted to come in, do what the FBI told me and move on to the next level. I thought I had made it past the hard stuff with Phases 1 and 2. I sure wish that I had found this web site before my poly because with absolutely no poly knowledge or experience I wasn't worried at all.
I realize now after reading TLBTLD that this guy might as well have been reading from the DDoPI training manual. He even used the exact statements that were supposed to appear as random statements, i.e.. "tell me what's on your mind" etc etc.
My crime here was naivety, but in the end I am sure glad that this experience has opened my eyes to the kind of people that are in charge of our national security!
Posted by NSAreject
- Apr 12, 2005, 11:08 PMQuote"Good interrogator", my anal squeeze. What the polygrapher did, was prove himself a sadistic liar with no integrity what so ever.
Yea, and I had my share of, "I'm your friend",
interrogators at the NSA. Since my last guy denied
knowing about counter-measures, does that classify him
as a liar, with no integrity (do any of them have an
ounce of integrity) ?
Posted by Bill Crider
- Apr 12, 2005, 07:10 PMok. fair enough. ill take your word for it. your mistake then was not guilt, but being too weak. they tried the same shit with me tho i was not asked to sign papers. i was told we could "go on" if i could give him something. there was nothing to give so i walked out. i ended up getting an appeal but i failed it too. lol. he wanted me to admit to something too and by failure #4 I was pissed and told him i didnt give a damn what his machine said, I stand by my statement. he showed me the door and that was the end of my career before it started, but no son of a bitch is ever gonna get me to admit somehting i didnt do.
Posted by Twoblock
- Apr 12, 2005, 05:37 PMpillpopper
"Good interrogator" my anal squeeze. What the polygrapher did was prove himself a sadistic liar with no integrity what so ever. That line of interrogation is nothing but a power trip "trap" not unlike the power trip of rapists. This appears to be a good man whos LEO possibilities have been ruined by one tinker toy machine and one (hate to call him a) man's power decision. The really sad thing is that our stupid, crooked deal making legislators in Wash. D. C. lets it happen.
"Good interrogator" my anal squeeze. What the polygrapher did was prove himself a sadistic liar with no integrity what so ever. That line of interrogation is nothing but a power trip "trap" not unlike the power trip of rapists. This appears to be a good man whos LEO possibilities have been ruined by one tinker toy machine and one (hate to call him a) man's power decision. The really sad thing is that our stupid, crooked deal making legislators in Wash. D. C. lets it happen.
Posted by exFBIRecruit
- Apr 12, 2005, 02:08 PMpillpopper,
this "good interrogator" would not let up until I specified some "range" for all questions he felt I was being deceptive on regarding drugs. I asked him if I should specify a range of "0-0" in which he replied that it would be seen that I was "blaming the equipment" and not showing "integrity" by admitting something. I thought that even putting a "0" down in the range was statement enough to show him that I was in fact telling the truth on that question. He questioned me on the range of 0-3 before he would sign it and asked me to change it to a 1-3 range.
To answer your question, I AM sure it was 0 times and was very adament about that in the post interview! the range that you find "insane" was prompted from this "interrogator" that you believe is good!
Again, the only reason I went along with what this guy wanted is, he WAS succesful in getting me to believe that he was on my side and I still had a chance as long as I signed his paper!
this "good interrogator" would not let up until I specified some "range" for all questions he felt I was being deceptive on regarding drugs. I asked him if I should specify a range of "0-0" in which he replied that it would be seen that I was "blaming the equipment" and not showing "integrity" by admitting something. I thought that even putting a "0" down in the range was statement enough to show him that I was in fact telling the truth on that question. He questioned me on the range of 0-3 before he would sign it and asked me to change it to a 1-3 range.
To answer your question, I AM sure it was 0 times and was very adament about that in the post interview! the range that you find "insane" was prompted from this "interrogator" that you believe is good!
Again, the only reason I went along with what this guy wanted is, he WAS succesful in getting me to believe that he was on my side and I still had a chance as long as I signed his paper!
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 12, 2005, 01:56 PMQuote from: pillpopper on Apr 12, 2005, 01:43 PM...im sorry, ex-recruit, but i cant imagine any scenario und the sun where a person who hasnt sold drugs will write down 0-3. you werent the victim of a mind f**k, you were busted by a good interrogator.
Re-read exFBIRecruit's post. He/she explained quite well his/her reason for signing this statement. It is not hard at all to imagine that someone who hasn't sold drugs would sign such a statement when told that it's his/her only option if he/she wants to continue in the hiring process.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 12, 2005, 01:50 PMI'm saddened to read of your experience, and sadder to say that the chances of your being granted a "re-test," passing it, and going on to be hired by the FBI are close to zero. Worse still, this will adversely affect your job prospects with other federal agencies that require a security clearance.
However, nothing prevents you from appealing the results and asking for a "re-test," and it would be prudent to do so. In your letter, you should clearly emphasize that you have never sold an illegal drug, and explain the polygrapher's behavior that led to your signing the statement "admitting" to having sold drugs "0-3 times."
Even if, as I expect, no "re-test" is granted, your letter should be added to your FBI HQ file, which is a permanent government record that will be reviewed if you ever seek any position that requires a security clearance. You don't want the last thing in that file to be your "admission" to having sold drugs without any explanation of the circumstances leading thereto.
Feel free to name and shame the polygrapher who did this to you. His/her identity is not a state secret.
However, nothing prevents you from appealing the results and asking for a "re-test," and it would be prudent to do so. In your letter, you should clearly emphasize that you have never sold an illegal drug, and explain the polygrapher's behavior that led to your signing the statement "admitting" to having sold drugs "0-3 times."
Even if, as I expect, no "re-test" is granted, your letter should be added to your FBI HQ file, which is a permanent government record that will be reviewed if you ever seek any position that requires a security clearance. You don't want the last thing in that file to be your "admission" to having sold drugs without any explanation of the circumstances leading thereto.
Feel free to name and shame the polygrapher who did this to you. His/her identity is not a state secret.
Posted by Bill Crider
- Apr 12, 2005, 01:43 PMi replied to your pm before i read this. 0-3 times you sold drugs? you arent sure if it was 0 or not? that strikes me as fairly insane and there is not a snowball's chance in hell you will get an appeal.
im sorry, ex-recruit, but i cant imagine any scenario und the sun where a person who hasnt sold drugs will write down 0-3. you werent the victim of a mind f**k, you were busted by a good interrogator.
im sorry, ex-recruit, but i cant imagine any scenario und the sun where a person who hasnt sold drugs will write down 0-3. you werent the victim of a mind f**k, you were busted by a good interrogator.
Posted by exFBIRecruit
- Apr 12, 2005, 01:29 PMI am a recently "failed" FBI recruit. I sailed through the first 2 phases of the process and got screwed in the poly. Unfortuantley I knew nothing of this site or what to expect until after I failed. The a-hole polygrapher used just about every technique in Georges book! In the end he told me that if I get up and leave and blame the machine, then all hopes of working for the FBI would be gone, however if I wrote an amendmant to my application he would fight for me to get a re-test. I felt that this was b.s. from the beginning but fell for his giving me one last chance crap. I failed on the drug portion and he told me that I don't need to admit to any drug usage outside of the guidelines, but rather specify "more realistic range" i.e. used illegal drugs between 5-8 times etc.. The question I got caught up on was the sale of illegal drugs. When the polygrapher insisted that I write down a range for how many times I sold drugs, I wrote down " from 0-3 times" He asked why I wrote down zero and I told him because I had never sold drugs and was just complying with his wishes for a "range" of the number of times. My letter came yesterday stating that the employment offer is being rescinded because it is not within their guidelines to employ people that have sold drugs!
My question is: Can I appeal the results and ask for a re-test if I fell for their mind fu@k and signed their "admission" letter???
Thanks to all in advance!
My question is: Can I appeal the results and ask for a re-test if I fell for their mind fu@k and signed their "admission" letter???
Thanks to all in advance!