- Welcome to AntiPolygraph.org Message Board.
A forum for free and open discussion of polygraph-related topics
Posted by T-Mac
- Apr 16, 2004, 03:00 AMSurely you must realize that if this site was in any way useful to terrorists or enemies of the US it would most surely be shut down. Polygraph consist of false positives weeding out true patriotic americans. Extensive backgrounds, interviews, etc. will weed out the spies from getting sensitive positions in the govt.
Posted by George W. Maschke
- Apr 09, 2004, 07:06 AMLLPOF,
I agree with you that spies, terrorists, and other criminals could exploit the information provided on AntiPolygraph.org to pass the polygraph and obtain positions of trust from the United States Government.
However, the fact that various agencies of the executive branch of our government rely on polygraphy does not mean that polygraphy is reliable. Indeed, the National Academy of Sciences in its authoritative report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection, warns "Overconfidence in the polygraph--a belief in its accuracy not justified by the evidence--presents a danger to national security objectives" (p. 219, original emphasis), elaborating at p. 221:
But the federal agencies that rely on polygraphy have wilfully ignored the National Academy of Sciences' warning. (See, for example, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence John P. Stenbit's 5 November 2002 memo, "Continued Use of Polygraph Techniques.")
Note that spies like Ignatz Theodor Griebl, Karel Frantisek Koecher, Larry Wu-tai Chin, Aldrich Hazen Ames, and Ana Belen Montes all passed the polygraph without any assistance from AntiPolygraph.org. These spies were all arguably the benificiaries of the U.S. Government's misplaced faith in the pseudoscience of polygraphy.
AntiPolygraph.org provides information on polygraph countermeasures in order to provide truthful persons a means of protecting themselves against the random error associated with this invalid procedure that is wrongly called a "test." False positive results have caused considerable harm to the careers and reputations of many truthful, law abiding persons. I and others associated with AntiPolygraph.org find the U.S. Government's practice of branding applicants and employees as liars based on polygraph chart readings to be intolerable, and indeed, un-American.
To protect national security, the U.S. Government should stop pretending that the polygraph can detect lies. It can't. It's pseudoscientific quackery. Don't blame us for pointing out that the emperor is naked.
I agree with you that spies, terrorists, and other criminals could exploit the information provided on AntiPolygraph.org to pass the polygraph and obtain positions of trust from the United States Government.
However, the fact that various agencies of the executive branch of our government rely on polygraphy does not mean that polygraphy is reliable. Indeed, the National Academy of Sciences in its authoritative report, The Polygraph and Lie Detection, warns "Overconfidence in the polygraph--a belief in its accuracy not justified by the evidence--presents a danger to national security objectives" (p. 219, original emphasis), elaborating at p. 221:
QuoteFederal officials need to be careful not to draw the wrong conclusions from negative polygraph test results. Our discussions with polygraph program and counterintelligence officials in several federal agencies suggest that there is a widespread belief in this community that someone who "passes" the polygraph is "cleared" of suspicion. Acting on such a belief with the results of security screening polygraph tests could pose a danger to national security because a negative polygraph test result in a population with a low base rate, especially when the test protocol produces a very small percentage of positive test results, provides little information on deceptiveness beyond what was already known prior to the test, that the probability of true transgression is very low.
But the federal agencies that rely on polygraphy have wilfully ignored the National Academy of Sciences' warning. (See, for example, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence John P. Stenbit's 5 November 2002 memo, "Continued Use of Polygraph Techniques.")
Note that spies like Ignatz Theodor Griebl, Karel Frantisek Koecher, Larry Wu-tai Chin, Aldrich Hazen Ames, and Ana Belen Montes all passed the polygraph without any assistance from AntiPolygraph.org. These spies were all arguably the benificiaries of the U.S. Government's misplaced faith in the pseudoscience of polygraphy.
AntiPolygraph.org provides information on polygraph countermeasures in order to provide truthful persons a means of protecting themselves against the random error associated with this invalid procedure that is wrongly called a "test." False positive results have caused considerable harm to the careers and reputations of many truthful, law abiding persons. I and others associated with AntiPolygraph.org find the U.S. Government's practice of branding applicants and employees as liars based on polygraph chart readings to be intolerable, and indeed, un-American.
To protect national security, the U.S. Government should stop pretending that the polygraph can detect lies. It can't. It's pseudoscientific quackery. Don't blame us for pointing out that the emperor is naked.
Posted by Marty
- Apr 09, 2004, 01:42 AMQuote from: LLPOF on Apr 08, 2004, 10:15 PMDo you guys realize the damage you're doing? The gov't uses the poly to screen potential terrorists, spies, etc - You're teaching these scum to bypass security measures. You're just as responsible should any of these people damage the security of the United States.
LLPOF,
What utter nonsense. In 1991, using his authority as Commander in Chief, the President promulgated Military Rule of Evidence 707(a), which bars the admission of polygraph results, the opinion of the polygraph examiner, or any reference to an offer to take, failure to take, or taking of a polygraph examination in courts martial. This holds true for ALL polygraph evidence, exculpatory or incriminating. Note: this was not a rule promulgated by a skeptical judicial system. President Bush did not have to issue this MRE. Kind'a indicates what Bush thinks of the polygraph.
-Marty
Posted by triple x
- Apr 08, 2004, 11:37 PMLLPOF,
Perhaps your analogy with respect to this website is a bit extreme.
Seriously, you don't really believe that we should worry about Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein downloading and reading "TLBTLD" with the anticipation of taking [and beating] a polygraph exam administered by the USA?.
I would think Osama and his cronies are not too worried about a polygraph exam being administered to them in the event they are captured.
Osama and his boyz are probably reading-up and studying their next intended target of what they plan to blow-up, rather than how they can beat an unreliable polygraph exam.
Do you think that if Osama or Saddam were administered a polygraph exam, and the charts "interpreted" and found to be "NDI", do you honestly think they would be released.?
Triple x
Perhaps your analogy with respect to this website is a bit extreme.
Seriously, you don't really believe that we should worry about Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein downloading and reading "TLBTLD" with the anticipation of taking [and beating] a polygraph exam administered by the USA?.
I would think Osama and his cronies are not too worried about a polygraph exam being administered to them in the event they are captured.
Osama and his boyz are probably reading-up and studying their next intended target of what they plan to blow-up, rather than how they can beat an unreliable polygraph exam.
Do you think that if Osama or Saddam were administered a polygraph exam, and the charts "interpreted" and found to be "NDI", do you honestly think they would be released.?
Triple x
Posted by anonymous
- Apr 08, 2004, 11:11 PMLLPOF,
And just to add, the real scum are the deceptive
polygraphers, who try to trick people into believing
that the poly is real science, just to get one to admit
to something. Ever watch NYPD Blue, or Law and
Order, and see how people are victimized by
trickery and deception ?
And just to add, the real scum are the deceptive
polygraphers, who try to trick people into believing
that the poly is real science, just to get one to admit
to something. Ever watch NYPD Blue, or Law and
Order, and see how people are victimized by
trickery and deception ?
Posted by anonymous
- Apr 08, 2004, 11:06 PMLLPOF,
For your information, it is obvious that spies are
trained to beat the poly, such as, Aimes, Walker, and
so forth. This site would be "old hat" to them. This
site is dedicated to those, whose careers and
reputations are dependent on this nonsense. Can
you blame those, who are victims of false positives ?
For your information, it is obvious that spies are
trained to beat the poly, such as, Aimes, Walker, and
so forth. This site would be "old hat" to them. This
site is dedicated to those, whose careers and
reputations are dependent on this nonsense. Can
you blame those, who are victims of false positives ?
Posted by LLPOF
- Apr 08, 2004, 10:15 PMDo you guys realize the damage you're doing? The gov't uses the poly to screen potential terrorists, spies, etc - You're teaching these scum to bypass security measures. You're just as responsible should any of these people damage the security of the United States.