Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) H.R.2213 (Read 6358 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
H.R.2213
May 3rd, 2017 at 1:14pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Is anyone tracking this?  What is a "waiver authority?"

H.R.2213 - To amend the Anti-Border Corruption Act of 2010 to authorize certain polygraph waiver authority, and for other purposes.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2213
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #1 - May 5th, 2017 at 8:42pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I don't know what to make of this "Bill".

Is it the crack in the armor we've been waiting for, or just another half-hearted attempt about to get shot down by high ranking security officials.

I think it's bullshit and discriminatory.

If the polygraph can tell a lie, make everyone do it, or no one.

This "Bill" has no chance of seeing the light of day.
« Last Edit: May 5th, 2017 at 9:00pm by John M. »  

BILLS-115hr2213ih.pdf ( 245 KB | 76 Downloads )

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5786
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #2 - May 11th, 2017 at 4:15am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
John,

While in principle, I think less reliance on polygraphy is desirable, I cannot support this legislation. It's a half-measure that establishes a favored (and a disfavored) class of applicants. This legislation skirts the overriding issue that polygraphy has no scientific basis whatsoever, and continues the charade that it is somehow reliable. It should be allowed to die in committee.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #3 - May 11th, 2017 at 9:32pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George W. Maschke wrote on May 11th, 2017 at 4:15am:
While in principle, I think less reliance on polygraphy is desirable, I cannot support this legislation.


Right on, Sir.

The principle being that any use of the polygraph results by themselves, to make a determination about one’s credibility, is an abusive policy.  The polygraph “test” is inherently probabilistic and laced with subjective conjecture.  Allowing it to be used - at all - is a national disgrace.

So, if this Bill passes, you can get a waiver to the polygraph if you’re a:

1) Certified cop for 3 years, not currently under investigation and have completed a polygraph in the last ten years, or
2) Federal law enforcement officer for 3 years, not under investigation, hold a “Tier 4/5” background investigation, or
3) Active duty, Reserve, or a veteran of the Armed Forces for at least 3 years, holds, or has held within the past 5 years at least a secret clearance, “Tier 4/5” background investigation, and has received or is eligible to receive an honorable discharge.

The reason for this Bill, is because too many people are failing to “successfully complete” the polygraph.  Right?  WTF? 

I love the name too – Anti-Border Corruption Act.  The corruption is actually between the burgeoning polygraph industry and the senior officials in the Offices of Security.

I think these congresspeople have had a whiff of what’s going on.  At least they’re willing to raise a bullshit flag.  Let’s write letters, email the crap out of them, use twitter and other social media to call attention to this problem.  Part of the Education step that Doug Williams professes.

If anyone can find contact info for the following, please post to this thread:

Ms. MCSALLY, Mr. MCCAUL, Mr. HURD, Mr. CARTER of Texas, Mr. CUELLAR, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, and Mr. VELA.

The bill was referred to the Committee on Homeland Security.
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #4 - May 13th, 2017 at 5:44pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
While grilling Comey last week, Senator Flake asks if the FBI can share their program's polygraph policy.  He complains that the CBO "failure" rate is 65%, and would like to know how the FBI is able to have more favorable results.

Is there such a policy?  How can you have a standard when the "results" can be so subjective?

https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=3A2EFD44-08A0-4F...
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2017 at 2:39am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
John M. wrote on May 13th, 2017 at 5:44pm:
While grilling Comey last week, Senator Flake asks if the FBI can share their program's polygraph policy.


Flake has an appropriate last name.  You could paper the walls of the Taj Mahal with FBI polygraph horror stories.  Where is he getting data that the FBI runs a good program?   Roll Eyes  It's like advertising an airline because it's had fewer fatal crashes than it's competitor.   Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #6 - May 16th, 2017 at 6:19pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
It is very difficult to reach one of these members of congress, unless you live in their actual district.

I obtained this email address ( whistleblower@mail.house.gov) that should get some attention.  Feel free to copy and paste my letter.

Sir/Ma'am,

On April 27th, 2017, Representative Martha McSally introduced H.R. 2213 – Anti-Border Corruption Reauthorization Act of 2017.

I believe this Bill should not pass because it doesn’t go far enough, and because it is discriminatory by unfairly providing accommodations to a favored group of people.

At issue, is whether the Customs and Border Patrol can issue waivers to certain law enforcement and military members, so that they can avoid taking the polygraph.

The reason for this Bill is because they can’t get enough people to “pass” the polygraph.  Reportedly, two-thirds of all applicants fail the “test”.  This “test” is inherently probabilistic and laced with subjective conjecture.  Allowing it to be used - at all - is a national disgrace.

It is absurd to use the “results” as the sole basis for determining someone’s credibility.  The EPPA and DOD regulations strictly prohibit these actions.  There are many reasons why someone would produce a false positive during a polygraph test and using the physiological responses of an individual under duress to ascertain their trustworthiness, is a fundamentally flawed policy.

This Bill is a half-measure that establishes a favored (and a disfavored) class of applicants. It also skirts the overriding issue that polygraphy has no scientific basis whatsoever, and continues the charade that it is somehow reliable.

Please do everything in your power to stop this Bill from passing in the House.

Very respectfully,

John M.


****UPDATE****

Reply from Homeland.Security@mail.house.gov -

The Committee considered this measure on May 3, 2017, and ordered the measure to be reported to the House with a favorable recommendation with an amendment, by voice vote.
The Committee filed its report on this measure and the House is expected to consider it this week.

It is recommended that you contact your local representative to voice your opinion, as the Committee has finalized its actions on this measure and it will be pending before the House of Representatives.

The measure, its amendments, and disposition can be found at:
http://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=105918 The Committee’s Action sheet provides a better summary of the Committee’s action on this measure. Committee Action [PDF]
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2017 at 2:08pm by John M. »  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #7 - May 17th, 2017 at 1:22pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
HR 2213 is on the House floor this week.  http://docs.house.gov/floor/

CSPAN coverage of House proceedings begin at 10.  Set your DVRs for the afternoon sessions!  Although it sailed through committee, Skopos Labs only gives it a 1% chance of passing.

The debates will be revealing.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr2213
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #8 - May 18th, 2017 at 11:31am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
John M. wrote on May 11th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
If anyone can find contact info for the following, please post to this thread:

Ms. MCSALLY, Mr. MCCAUL, Mr. HURD, Mr. CARTER of Texas, Mr. CUELLAR, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, and Mr. VELA.


If they're all House members, just send mail to: "Washington DC 20515". Wink
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #9 - May 19th, 2017 at 5:43pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Well, they legislated on 21 of 23 Bills this week.  Only HR 984 and 2213 were not brought forward.  Coincidence?

Maybe the polygraph industrial complex has an objection to this waiver that they are seeking?

Or, very possibly... my congressman heard me blowing the damn whistle and decided to do something about it.

Either way, can't miss TV starts Monday at 2pm on C-SPAN.
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #10 - May 20th, 2017 at 3:05pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
John M. wrote on May 16th, 2017 at 6:19pm:
It is very difficult to reach one of these members of congress, unless you live in their actual district.


Yes, there's a concept known as "Congressional courtesy", whereby members will generally refer inquiries from outside their own districts to the House or Senate representative of the district from which the inquiry originated. Cool
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Wandersmann
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 228
Joined: Jun 2nd, 2015
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #11 - May 20th, 2017 at 6:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
xenonman wrote on May 20th, 2017 at 3:05pm:
Yes, there's a concept known as "Congressional courtesy", whereby members will generally refer inquiries from outside their own districts to the House or Senate representative of the district from which the inquiry originated.


......and if your Congressman happens to be a sycophant jackass like mine, you are out of luck.   Angry
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #12 - May 21st, 2017 at 11:56pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Here’s the Committee on Homeland Security’s report to Congress. 

Some interesting comments in this.  Most noticeably, last month, the CBP piloted a "revised version" of its polygraph examination with the intention to improve polygraph “pass” rates.

-      “(the Bill) can provide CBP with immediate relief so that they are able to quickly, yet judiciously, hire officers and agents from a pool of applicants that already maintain the public’s trust and put their lives on the line for our security and safety on a daily basis.”

-      “We are simply losing ground every single month, and there is no end in sight as we continue to lose agents and officers through attrition, without the ability to quickly hire new ones. At the current hiring rate, approximately 150–200 applicants go through the process in order to hire one agent or officer. This means CBP needs to have hundreds of thousands of people apply just to meet their current needs. Hiring more agents and officers will boost our national security and bring good jobs to our local economy.”

-      “The Committee is concerned with CBPs inability to reach its current authorized employment levels and the impact to the Nation’s security and economic growth causes by CBP officer and agent shortage. As a result, the Committee is providing this temporary waiver authority for these three, narrowly tailored exemptions to alleviate the immediate shortage of CBP officers and Border Patrol agents while changes are piloted to the polygraph examination.”

-      “Though the Committee recognizes that this measure may improve, on a limited basis, CBP’s ability to onboard new employees, there are larger challenges associated with the hiring process, most especially as relates to the polygraph program. The Committee intends to carry out oversight of the use of this waiver authority in addition to any reforms CBP may consider for the administration of its pre-employment polygraph examinations. The Committee is aware that CBP launched a pilot to test a revised version of its polygraph examination in late April 2017 with the intention of improving pass rates, shortening the overall time needed to administer the polygraph, and potentially address concerns about how these polygraphs are administered.”

Legislation begins tomorrow at noon on C-SPAN – set your DVRs!

  

CRPT-115hrpt121.pdf ( 265 KB | 41 Downloads )

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box xenonman
God Member
Banned
*****
Offline


May sarin, ricin, and
variola major befall
Langley

Posts: 680
Location: WI   USA
Joined: Dec 14th, 2009
Gender: Male
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #13 - May 22nd, 2017 at 8:10pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I checked all three C-Span channels, but there was no discussion of the CBP or polygraphs that I could find. Cool
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
Back to top
YouTube  
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box John M.
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 130
Joined: May 3rd, 2017
Re: H.R.2213
Reply #14 - May 22nd, 2017 at 11:56pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Something has happened to this Bill.  It was on the schedule for last week - http://docs.house.gov/floor/Default.aspx?date=2017-05-15.

It never made it to the floor.  Click on "next day" at the bottom of the page and see for yourselves - http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.aspx?day=20170515

I tweeted @RepMcSally (the Bill's sponsor) to ask what happened to it - she has yet to reply.  Not holding my breath.



  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
H.R.2213

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X