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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) H.R.2213 (Read 5118 times)
quickfix
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #30 - Jul 15th, 2017 at 12:48pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Jul 14th, 2017 at 9:15pm:
Quickfix, just curious .......... would you have any problem disbarring an attorney, removing a Federal judge from the bench, or removing a Congressman from office for failing a polygraph?   https://antipolygraph.org/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/huh.gif


Your question doesn't really make a lot of sense.  Lawyers, judges and congressmen don't require polygraphs to do their jobs, since they don't have or require daily access to classified information.  Even if they did, polygraph testing is not a requirement to hold a clearance or have access to classified information.  Military attorneys (and judges or that matter) are not polygraphed unless they assigned to CIA, DIA, NSA, etc.  It's matter of agency requirements, not job requirements.  Therefore, your question is apples vs oranges. 
  
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xenonman
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #31 - Jul 15th, 2017 at 1:13pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Jul 14th, 2017 at 9:15pm:
Congressmen pass a polygraph


Is the polygraph required of those on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees?  I know that their staffs must have security clearances. Roll Eyes
  

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and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #32 - Jul 15th, 2017 at 5:08pm
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The EPPA is quite general when it comes to governmental employers:


Sec. 2006. Exemptions

(a) No application to governmental employers. This chapter shall not apply with respect to the United States Government, any State or local government, or any political subdivision of a State or local government.
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #33 - Jul 15th, 2017 at 7:11pm
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quickfix wrote on Jul 15th, 2017 at 12:48pm:
Lawyers, judges and congressmen don't require polygraphs to do their jobs, since they don't have or require daily access to classified information.


I disagree.  It was always explained to me that it was all about trustworthiness.  It was all about the potential damage that could be done to society by a bad apple.  535 Senators and Congressman ruling over 341,000,000 people.  Think of the damage they can do if they are corrupt (as most of them areEmbarrassed  Trustworthiness plays a role there.   How about the damage that can be done by a crooked or incompetent judge ?  Isn't trustworthiness and issue?  None of these people have a right to be a member of Congress or a right to be a licensed attorney.
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #34 - Jul 15th, 2017 at 7:15pm
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xenonman wrote on Jul 15th, 2017 at 1:13pm:
Is the polygraph required of those on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees?  I know that their staffs must have security clearances.

Good question Xenonman.  Back in the day I am pretty certain that they could not be  forced to volunteer to be polygraphed.  By the way, forced to volunteer is the accurate description for 99% of the Federal employees who submit to the polygraph.  Only morons truly volunteer to be polygraphed.  Being forced to volunteer doesn't make it mandatory, you only lose your livelihood and are blacklisted from future government service if you don't.  It's the same play on words right out of the Soviet Marxist governing manuals.   Things may have changed regarding staffers forced to be polygraphed, but I doubt it.   Huh
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #35 - Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:12pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Jul 14th, 2017 at 8:28am:
Senators Durbin and Duckworth have introduced a bill (S.1560) that would block H.R.2213 and expand polygraph screening to currently serving CBP employees as well as mandating polygraph screening for Immigration and Customs Enforcement:


Here is the text.  More perception deception.

They misdirect right up front - "The Secretary of Homeland Security may not hire any applicant for a law enforcement position who does not pass a polygraph examination".

Then they mandate "Targeted Polygraph Reinvestigations" and even "Random Polygraph Examinations".  Notice that there is no authorization to take unfavorable actions against someone for not "passing" it though.

This opens the door to the type of abuse and corruption that happened to me.

Rubio, Nelson and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs will be hearing from me soon. Promise.
  

Senate_bill_S1560.pdf ( 208 KB | 18 Downloads )

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #36 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 5:58pm
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John M. wrote on Jul 25th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
Rubio, Nelson and the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs will be hearing from me soon. Promise


It is done.

I urge you all to copy and paste this message to your individual senators and the HSGAC @ https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/contact/committee

Sirs,

It has come to my attention that Senate Bill S.1560 has been referred to the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee for review.

It is extremely important that the following issue be addressed before all else, concerning this Bill:

SEC. 3.

(a) Applicants.—Beginning not later than 30 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security—

(1) shall require that polygraph examinations are conducted on all applicants for law enforcement positions; and

(2) may not hire any applicant for a law enforcement position who does not pass a polygraph examination.

(b) Targeted Polygraph Reinvestigations—Beginning not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security, as part of each background reinvestigation, shall administer a polygraph examination to—

(1) every CBP law enforcement employee who is determined by the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security to be part of a population at risk of corruption or misconduct, based on an analysis of past incidents of misconduct and corruption; and

(2) every ICE law enforcement employee who is determined by the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security to be part of a population at risk of corruption or misconduct, based on an analysis of past incidents of misconduct and corruption.

(d) Random Polygraph Reinvestigations—Beginning not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall—

(1) randomly administer a polygraph examination each year to at least 5 percent of CBP law enforcement employees who are undergoing background reinvestigations during that year and have not been selected for a targeted polygraph examination under subsection (b)(1); and

(2) randomly administer a polygraph examination each year to at least 5 percent of ICE law enforcement employees who are undergoing background reinvestigations during that year and have not been selected for a targeted polygraph examination under subsection (b)(2).

The Bill forbids the CBP and ICE from hiring an individual who fails the polygraph examination, but fails to address the issue of what to do with an existing law enforcement official that does not pass a polygraph examination.  Even DOD regulations state that no unfavorable administrative actions shall be taken based solely on the results of the polygraph examination.

Answering this question is crucial to ensure that abuse and corruption don’t take place in the Customs and Border Patrol and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement like they have at the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I urge you to raise this issue with the committee as individual and civil rights are at stake.

Very Respectfully,



  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #37 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 9:32pm
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John M. wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 5:58pm:
I urge you all to copy and paste this message to your individual senators and the HSGAC

John -

      I was getting ready to send this message to my Senator, but I'm a bit confused as to what we are asking.  As I understand the cut and paste message, we are O.K. with applicants not being hired due to the polygraph and we also want on-board officials to be fired if they don't pass a polygraph?  Don't we want to fight this idiotic instrument at all levels?   Are we just trying to put on-board officials through the same hell as applicants to make more victims and get more support for the anti-polygraph community? Tongue
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #38 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 10:23pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 9:32pm:
but I'm a bit confused as to what we are asking

I believe that once they admit that they can't do anything to an existing employee based solely on the "results", why do them at all?

It's exposing the lie that George professes and Doug despises.

It's easier for them to accept a few cracked eggs and deny innocents a job - because they didn't have it to begin with, and they can feel like there was no harm done.  It's a completely different thing to ruin a individual's life by using the polygraph "results" as the sole reason for doing so.

If this Bill passes as it is currently written, there will be polygraph abuse and corruption at CBP and ICE - just like at DIA.
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #39 - Jul 27th, 2017 at 10:36pm
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Everyone here realizes right?  That given the current CBP polygraph failure rates, THOUSANDS of people will lose their livelihoods each year if they take unfavorable actions against them based solely on their polygraph "results".

If you go in to a polygraph knowing that they can't take any unfavorable administrative actions against you, why worry at all?  Hell, why waste our tax money even doing it?

It's a shame, a ruse, a deception.
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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George W. Maschke
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #40 - Jul 28th, 2017 at 8:50am
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See AntiPolygraph.org's latest blog post, "Democratic Senator Dick Durbin Hypocritically Embraces Polygraph 'Testing,'" and please share on social media:

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/2017/07/28/democratic-senator-dick-durbin-hypocri...
  

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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #41 - Jul 28th, 2017 at 6:26pm
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John M. wrote on Jul 27th, 2017 at 5:58pm:
I urge you all to copy and paste this message to your individual senators and the HSGAC


John -  Now for my next challenge.  I attempted to send this to my senators but was not able because I do not have their Email addresses to include on the form.  I searched for about an our and could only find their website.  Have you figured out how to get their email address to enable form completion?
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #42 - Jul 28th, 2017 at 8:49pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Jul 28th, 2017 at 6:26pm:
Have you figured out how to get their email address to enable form completion?

There is usually a Link called "Contact".  Here's Rubio's - https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact

I think it's best if you just say;

Sirs,

It has come to my attention that Senate Bill S.1560 has been referred to the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee for review.

It is extremely important that the following issue be addressed before all else, concerning this Bill:

The Bill forbids the CBP and ICE from hiring an individual who fails the polygraph examination, but fails to address the issue of what to do with an existing law enforcement official that does not pass a polygraph examination.  Even DOD regulations state that no unfavorable administrative actions shall be taken based solely on the results of the polygraph examination.

Answering this question is crucial to ensure that abuse and corruption don’t take place in the Customs and Border Patrol and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement like they have at the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I urge you to raise this issue with the committee as individual and civil rights are at stake.

Very Respectfully,

// S //
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #43 - Jul 28th, 2017 at 9:28pm
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George W. Maschke wrote on Jul 28th, 2017 at 8:50am:
See AntiPolygraph.org's latest blog post, "Democratic Senator Dick Durbin Hypocritically Embraces Polygraph 'Testing,'" and please share on social media:


Notice how Durbin uses the term "Quick fix" disparagingly.    Cheesy

Notice how Durbin also basically says, it doesn't work, so let's use it!   Embarrassed
  
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Re: H.R.2213
Reply #44 - Aug 1st, 2017 at 9:28pm
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I just got this from Senator Bill Nelson.  Nothing yet from Senator Rubio or the HSGAC/Senator Johnson.

Dear Mr. M:

            Thank you for contacting me regarding S. 1560, the Integrity in Border and Immigration Enforcement Act. I understand your concerns and appreciate your taking the time to be involved and informed about matters important to Florida and our nation.

            Introduced by Senator Richard Durbin, this legislation is pending before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. Please know that I will keep your views in mind if this issue is considered before the full Senate. If you have any other concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me in the future.

Sincerely,
  Bill Nelson
  

"The polygraph examination is a supplement to, not a substitute for, other methods of investigation.  No, unfavorable administrative action shall be taken based solely on its results."  ~ DODI 5210.91.
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