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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DIA's Insider Threat Program (Read 128455 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Joe McCarthy
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #45 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 5:23am
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I think an EPPA like law should be passed for all facets of polygraph at this point, and I have only recently come to this realization.  

I have recently come into possession of some documents and recordings of TAPE meetings and discussion in the hospitality room, that have totally convinced me that this industry is in desperate need of government intervention and regulation, because to trust the industry to do it from within, I am sad to say, is hopeless.  

Tonight, I have reached the point where I fully support and will actively work toward the passing, EPPA like laws at all levels of polygraph operation and administration.  There should be more governmental oversight of the industry and the industries anti competitive behavior should be looked into deeply.  

I will testify in front of any committee about what I have experienced in my career, and why the industry cannot be trusted to manage or regulate corruption in the industry; not because it is unable to, but because it is unwilling to.  I will also testify, that in some circles, unethical, and possible illegal behavior, at least in Texas, is not only tolerated, it is encouraged.  

All research and data should be reviewed, at all facets of polygraph specialization, and decisions should be made in regard to the validity and reliability of each specialization and the viability of the procedures as well as the culture of the industry.  

Let me be clear, my problem is not with the test, or most of it's uses; my problem is with the people who are just truly awful and evil in this industry, and the people who marginalize or defend their behaviors.  Any good thing can be abused, and I have been witness to abuse in the industry.  

I'll say it again, the problem is not the test, in my opinion.  The problem resides in the awful and evil people in the industry, and the people who protect or marginalize the awful behavior.  

When I saw the polygraph place stuff, I thought I was going to be sick.  But listening to what I have now, I weep at the idea that some of these people are considered polygraphs best and brightest.  If something doesn't, fundamentally, in the polygraph culture, this industry is doomed.

Antipolygraph.org will not be the end of the industry.  The industry elites, and the protected class within, will be he end of the industry.  

At least tonight, I found a couple more people in the Texas industry who finally sees these people for what they are, and that is how the downfall will happen.  It will have nothing to do with procedure or accuracy.  

The end will be attributed to examiners who go too far thinking they are bullet proof, and an industry that will do nothing about the behaviors of the unethical, and punish the person bringing the unethical behavior to light.  

Because if you can't trust the industry leaders, how can you trust what we are selling.  If our leaders will no nothing, or in Texas' case, be actively involved in the unethical behavior, the Government will eventually see no choice by to step in.  It happened in 1988; it happened to the Board of polygraph examiners in Texas; and it will happen again soon.  And the industry will it there and say, we served what we got, just like they do with eppa, and no nothing to fix the core problem.  

Over the years, I have noticed that this industry does more to avoid dealing with issues, than it does solving issues or avoiding the creation of issues in the first place.  

The greedy and corrupt will do more damage to this industry than anyone.  

The day will come, when something so reprehensible will happen or come to light, that there will be no more protection for the unethical examiner or their corruption, and the leadership will have to address it before the government says, something has to be done.  That day, might be coming sooner than anyone thinks.  

It's amazing what people will say when they think they are around safe ears.  They never think that they will cross a moral line and someone won't hit, record. 
« Last Edit: Mar 16th, 2017 at 6:33am by Joe McCarthy »  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #46 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 7:55pm
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Mr. McCarthy,

Sir, I can’t thank you enough for your understanding and for your efforts to help put a stop to polygraph abuse.

I was hesitant to post here – for fear that someone would find out who I am.  After several of my former co-workers called and told me that they were also being abused, I decided enough was enough.

There is much more about my story that has yet to be told, but the effects of polygraph abuse nearly ruined my life.  Thanks to a couple wonderful doctors and the miracle of anxiolytic medications, I’ve come back from a very dark place.

I was granted a federal disability retirement due the psychological issues caused by excessive polygraph abuse.  I submitted an appeal to the ECAB on 30 July, 2016.  I fully expect to win this case due to several precedents that consider among other things, negligence and willful violation of approved and relevant regulations.  I possess the indisputable material facts.

You’re correct about the level of corruption involved, and Wandersmann’s comparison to the East German Stassi is astonishing when you think about it.  What the hell is going on?

Imagine you have a job, where you decide who gets to have a job, based on their performance in an interrogation.  Or, even better, your job is to catch the next Edward Snowden and you’re not doing too well.  I know, let’s interrogate some more of them!  Find those “vulnerabilities” and “mitigate” them.

What’s really scary, is that people are advancing in their careers by ruining the careers of others.  What the hell is going on?

I have come to the same realization as you have – let’s put an end the polygraph industry and the corrupt officials that enable it.

I’m so glad that I decided to post on here.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #47 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 10:01pm
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I was granted a federal disability retirement due the psychological issues caused by excessive polygraph abuse.

Really? That's very interesting. Was "polygraph" mentioned in your disability paperwork? I have heard many stories of polygraph related anguish here, but never one of it having resulted in a pathology.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #48 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 11:13pm
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Ex Member wrote on Mar 16th, 2017 at 10:01pm:
Was "polygraph" mentioned in your disability paperwork? I have heard many stories of polygraph related anguish here, but never one of it having resulted in a pathology.

They don't list the cause of the disability in the "paperwork",  only the illness itself.

I guess you've heard it now.

Official diagnosis was generalized anxiety disorder and chronic PTSD, followed by depression.  Five times in three years - like I've said before, the last three ended in a nervous breakdown.

Subjected to an intense unavoidable and inescapable stressor.

You want to hear the worst part?

I presented medical evidence of the above illness and begged not to have to go through it again.  Despite my objections, they went ahead and did it anyway.  I thought that I had to, or I would lose my job.   

Immediately after that last one, I had to meet with two DIA psychologists - Drs. Jill Tucillo and Richard Ault.  After a couple hours, they cleared me to go home and advised me to continue seeing my doctors.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #49 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 5:47am
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What part caused you so much distress? What it a potential loss of a career? Was there possible legal jeopardy? Were you subjected to intensive interrogation? Or, just an aggregation of all facets of it? I think you are trying to maintain some anonymity, so share only what you can.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #50 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 6:34pm
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During the initial polygraph screening, the examiner told me that I displayed abnormal physiological responses to one of the questions.  I was summoned for a second appointment two days later.

The second time didn’t go any better because I feared that I would react abnormally again when he asked the question again.  It wasn’t the subject of the question that caused me to react, it was the question itself.  I was scared to death that I was going to fail at it again. And I did.  After four hours of name calling and accusations, the examiner was furious.  He unhooked everything, slammed it on the desk, and then held open the door telling me to get my things and leave.  I was shaking and felt like I was going to pass out.  I sat in the hotel lobby for about 15 minutes – just to calm down enough so that I could drive back to work.

When I got back, I immediately reported to the SSO and told them what had happened.  I even wrote a four point paper for the record, about why I felt sensitive to the question (much longer story here).

Now, let’s get something straight.  I don’t know how others “administer” the polygraph examination, but DIA uses professional interrogators.  My exams lasted from 3 to 4 hours.  The diagnostic opinion for the first two was “No Opinion”, the third “Significant Response”, the fourth “No Opinion”, and the last was “Significant Response”.

Do you know what goes on for four hours?  I know what the East Germans must have felt like.

So, 20 months after the fourth interrogation (remember the result was “No Opinion”), one that I had to go TDY to DIA and take in their execution chamber-like set up, the Director of the Insider Threat Program calls me in to his office.  He yanks my badge and my accesses and has me reassigned to an unclassified area.  I was brandished and labeled a vulnerability to security, based simply on the results of the polygraph examination.

Have you ever experienced a panic attack?  After going a week without being able to sleep, I went to see my primary care provider.  She diagnosed me with situational anxiety – and my job was the situation.  She also composed a letter to my supervisor and advised him to allow liberal use of sick leave to address the debilitating symptoms of the illness.  I used it all.  My supervisor even coordinated with admin to change the sick leave I took for all my doctors appointments to “admin leave”. 

So, for 10 months I sat waiting for my fate - with nothing to do, answering phones and occupying a meaningless position.  They put me in a section they affectionately called “The Misfit Toys”.  This is where people go who lose their clearances for things like beating their wife, drunk driving, or drugs.

This was probably the darkest period.  My former co-workers were afraid to talk me – some were told I might even be a spy.   
 
My final exam/interrogation took place at DIA again, this time with full knowledge of my illnesses.  The doctor I had been seeing provided sufficient diagnoses and the DIA Central Adjudication Facility even issued an advisory letter acknowledging it.

Eventually, I was involuntarily reassigned to an unclassified position at HQ DIA in DC.  On the brink of losing it completely, my doctors suggested that I apply for OWCP and disability retirement - due to the effects of this pernicious abuse.

John S. Morter, USAF Retired - aka John M.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #51 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 7:18pm
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John, which exam format did they administer to you? The Test for Espionage and Sabotage? Were you instructed to lie on any of the questions? Which question did they say you exhibited abnormal responses to?
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #52 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 7:33pm
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They call them periodic exams.  I suppose you would call it a Guilty Knowledge Test.   

DIA has ordered every one of its employees and contractors to undergo this type of “testing”.  I have obtained through discovery that DIA has taken unfavorable administrative actions against at least 20 other people.  I predict there will be many more, unless something is done about it.

The business is catching potential spies, and buddy, business is good.

Mishandling Classified Information.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #53 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 8:36pm
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John,

The Guilty Knowledge Test is not used for polygraph screening purposes. DIA uses a technique alternately called the "Test for Espionage and Sabotage" or the "Test for Espionage, Sabotage, and Terrorism." See my still-relevant 1999 commentary on this pseudoscientific ritual here:

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-002.shtml
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #54 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 9:01pm
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I’m sorry.  They were Control Question Tests.  They do make you lie to a question so they can get a “baseline”, or whatever.  That’s what they said.

Part of the deception is in the terminology.  The people involved are unable to even know when they’re being lied to.  Insider Threat investigators and their enablers have found a way to get around the regulations/Law by claiming adherence to the regulations – when it’s obvious they aren’t.

Isn’t it ironic that the true liars are those charged to catch liars?

At this point, the DIA Creditability Assessments Branch has essentially lost its creditability.

DOD policy also states that if an individual does not successfully complete (their way of saying “pass”) the polygraph, the individual shall be given the opportunity to undergo additional examination.  If the additional examination fails to resolve all relevant questions, the Head of the DoD Component may initiate a CI investigation in accordance with DoD Policy.

It doesn’t say, haul them back in here again and again until they crack.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #55 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 11:35pm
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Happy St. Patrick's day Mr. McCarthy,

Is é ár lá beagnach anseo!
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #56 - Mar 24th, 2017 at 4:56pm
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You’re correct about the level of corruption involved, and Wandersmann’s comparison to the East German Stassi is astonishing when you think about it.  What the hell is going on?

Imagine you have a job, where you decide who gets to have a job, based on their performance in an interrogation.  Or, even better, your job is to catch the next Edward Snowden and you’re not doing too well.  I know, let’s interrogate some more of them!  Find those “vulnerabilities” and “mitigate” them.


Unfortunately, that's exactly the mentality which plagues the IC today, the same as 1947 -- that they are the sole barrier which prevents Raul Castro from occupying Key West or Putin from seizing Little Diomede AK!  (and that every applicant for employment in the IC is a likely plant by the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces or the Russian VSR or GRU)   Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2017 at 9:28pm by xenonman »  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #57 - Mar 24th, 2017 at 4:59pm
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I know what the East Germans must have felt like.


I often wonder if the application process for the Stasi was ever as arduous as that for the CIA.  Somehow, I doubt it! Roll Eyes
  

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The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #58 - Mar 24th, 2017 at 5:34pm
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I was beginning to think that my last few posts had left everyone speechless.

Upcoming rulings will be in my favor and we’ll finally be able rip the cover from this evil abuse.

In the meantime, please help get the word out to all DIA employees that it is strictly forbidden by DOD Regulations to take unfavorable administrative actions against them based solely on the results of the polygraph.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #59 - Mar 24th, 2017 at 5:40pm
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I was beginning to think that my last few posts had left everyone speechless.

Upcoming rulings will be in my favor and we’ll finally be able rip the cover from this evil abuse.

In the meantime, please help get the word out to all DIA employees that it is strictly forbidden by DOD Regulations to take unfavorable administrative actions against them based solely on the results of the polygraph.


What do you mean by "upcoming rulings" ? Smiley
  

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and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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