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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DIA's Insider Threat Program (Read 29741 times)
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #15 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 5:34am
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Doug Williams wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 4:57am:
For instance, a government employee can refuse to take the polygraph test, and not suffer any consequences for that refusal.


Does that mean that, say, a CIA employee could simply decline to be re-polygraphed during the course of employment at the Agency, without adverse personnel action being taken?

Keep fighting on from within the Federal Gulag -- it's the only way that the IC will ever be held accountable and the myth of the polygraph as a "scientific instrument" definitively smashed!  Cry
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #16 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 5:45am
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Doug Williams wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 4:57am:
For instance, a government employee can refuse to take the polygraph test, and not suffer any consequences for that refusal.


Does that mean that, say, a CIA employee could decline to be re-polygraphed during the course of his employment at the Agency, without adverse personnel action being taken?

Keep fighting on from within the Federal Gulag -- it's the only way that the IC will ever be held accountable and the myth of the polygraph as a "scientific instrument" be definitively smashed!  CryWandersmann wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 1:10am:
Good to read your input John, although I'm sorry for your suffering.  Same thing happened to me.  30 years in the Army and Intell community without as much as a verbal reprimand.  I'm working after retirement to try to put two kids through college and they stole my livelihood as well.  I'm working at a job not commensurate with my background making 25% of the pay I was once getting.  I like what you said, it is libel.  Our Founding Fathers would have supported challenging these clowns to a duel to the death over their dishonorable actions.  I wish we still could.  If we could, however ,that would be the end of the polygraph profession.  Bullies are cowards who don't attack if the victim poses a potential threat.  I've been saying all along that these bastards need to get sued out of existence after they go to prison for their fraud.

An identical fate befell me, with the difference being that I never entered into employment at an IC component.  Certainly my loss of lifetime earning power due to the BI and probably the polygraph is likely over 50% ! Huh
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #17 - Feb 22nd, 2017 at 2:08pm
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Thanks for your support Mr. Williams.  I have read your story with great interest and admire your ability to take on the government’s pernicious use of the polygraph.

I have read George’s book – several times, but always steered clear of your advice on countering the polygraph.  I never had anything to hide and was afraid that I would get accused of trying to employ countermeasures – thus, end my career.  I always showed up on time and followed all their orders.  I was polygraphed and interrogated five times in three years.  The last four times, it ended with me having a nervous breakdown – the final time, I had to be counseled by two DIA psychologists.

The polygraph operators are evil, but this evil has now become institutionalized.   Way back in 1997, in his condemnation of the polygraph in the government, Dr. Drew Richardson tells the Senate Judiciary Committee that the polygraph examiners report to mid-level managers who are largely ignorant of polygraph matters. These mid-level managers in turn report to executives, who have real problems for which they seek needed solutions (e.g., the need to protect national security from the danger of espionage, and the need to hire employees with appropriate backgrounds). These executives are left unable to evaluate that polygraph is not a viable solution and do not comprehend that ignorance and misinformation are built into their own command structure.''

This policy is being carried out by DIA’s Office of Security.  A whole program has been established to catch the next Snowden.  It’s an all-out witch hunt.  If you work in this program, you better find some people and label them as threats, or miss out on promotions, bonuses, etc.

Like I said in my previous post, if we can get enough people to blow the whistle to the government about this devious policy, we’ll eventually get someone with enough authority and moral courage to make stand. 

I encourage everyone who has experienced adverse actions based solely on the results of the polygraph to file a whistle-blower complaint to the House Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs https://oversight.house.gov/subcommittee/full-committee/ - just click on the “Blow the Whistle” link at the top of the page – you can even file anonymously.

We need to educate the legislators.  I agree with you on Public Law 100-347.  The government has an exemption to administer the polygraph to its employees, but the way I read it, there are important restrictions on the use of those exemptions.  “Section 8, (a)(1), Except as provided in paragraph (2), the exemption under subsection (d) of section 7 shall not apply if an employee is discharged, disciplined, denied employment or promotion, or otherwise discriminated against in any manner on the basis of the analysis of a polygraph test chart or the refusal to take a polygraph test, without additional supporting evidence.” 

Or (2), “In the case of an exemption described in subsection (e) or (f) of such section, the exemption shall not apply if the results of an analysis of a polygraph test chart are used, or the refusal to take a polygraph test is used, as the sole basis upon which an adverse employment action described in paragraph (1) is taken against an employee or prospective employee.”

And there is another reference that applies directly to me, under rights of the examinee, Section 8 (b)(1)(D) “the examiner does not conduct the test if there is sufficient written evidence by a physician that the examinee is suffering from a medical or psychological condition or undergoing treatment that might cause abnormal responses during the actual testing phase.”

I’ve had my own three pronged attack Mr. Williams, and I’ve been executing it since June 2014.  I expect Judgement will come any day now – from Federal Judges.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #18 - Feb 24th, 2017 at 2:39am
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Thanks for the input Wandersmann.

I have been in close contact with my congressman and senators.  I have filed complaints with the US Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (Chair - Ron Johnson), and with the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform (Chair - Jason Chaffetz).

Clapper is/was a complete idiot and a political hack.  His appointment to the position of DNI is an embarrassment to the entire intelligence community.  I briefed him a couple times when he was in charge of NGA and got to know him as an alcoholic asshole and a sycophant.

The Insider Threat Program operates like a modern day Stassi.  As I said in my earlier post, they advance in their careers by ruining the lives and careers of others.  Public Law 100-347 and DODI 5210.91 were created to guard against this pernicious type of abuse.  I vow to continue fighting them until their abuses are brought to light and they are held accountable.

Judgement is coming, remember Lot’s wife.



Just remember that Ron Johnson is a fairly conservative Republican from WI.  He is most unlikely to take a critical stance on any issues involving the IC, LE, polygraphy, etc. Sad
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #19 - Feb 24th, 2017 at 6:18pm
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xenonman wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 5:34am:
Does that mean that, say, a CIA employee could simply decline to be re-polygraphed during the course of employment at the Agency, without adverse personnel action being taken?


Whether that means what is says or not, it doesn't matter anyway unless they are held accountable for abiding to it.

You may ask yourself, why have regulations anyway?
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #20 - Feb 25th, 2017 at 10:12pm
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Well of course the CIA is a law unto itself in all matters, including personnel. 

I doubt very much that any employee there who declined a routine re-polygraph would be allowed around Langley much longer.

Of couse the DCI and DDCI are nicely exempted from ever being polygraphed at all, and I suspect that the same holds true of the DNI.
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #21 - Feb 26th, 2017 at 8:17pm
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xenonman wrote on Feb 25th, 2017 at 10:12pm:
Of couse the DCI and DDCI are nicely exempted from ever being polygraphed at all, and I suspect that the same holds true of the DNI.


Sometimes the bigwigs do allow themselves to be polygraphed to set a positive example for the commoners that work below them.  They always pass.  Imagine that.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #22 - Feb 28th, 2017 at 2:24pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 1:10am:
I firmly believe that if anyone could get through to Congressman Trey Gowdy and make him aware of what is going on he would erupt.  He is the most honorable guy on the hill, can't stand Bureaucratic waste, fraud, and abuse, and knows the Constitution by heart.  He is a staunch believer in due process and would easily see through the technical machinations the polygraph community uses to subvert the Constitution.


Your boy just went on FOX News this morning and called for using the polygraph to find out who's leaking in the White House.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #23 - Feb 28th, 2017 at 6:09pm
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Wandersmann wrote on Feb 22nd, 2017 at 1:10am:
I firmly believe that if anyone could get through to Congressman Trey Gowdy and make him aware of what is going on he would erupt.  He is the most honorable guy on the hill, can't stand Bureaucratic waste, fraud, and abuse, and knows the Constitution by heart.  He is a staunch believer in due process and would easily see through the technical machinations the polygraph community uses to subvert the Constitution.


Your boy just went on FOX News this morning and called for using the polygraph to find out who's leaking in the White House.


Unfortunately, as I've observed numerous times, in American popular culture, there continues to be that aura of mystery and awe surrounding the polygraph.  It continues to be viewed as the automatic, ultimate arbitrator of guilt or innocence, mostly by those with no understanding of the "toy".  This is evidenced by the ubiquitous role played by the polygraph in true crime programs on TV and in true crime paperbacks.

Gowdy's latest advocacy of polygraph use is very reminiscent of Nixon's statements in favor of more use of the polygraph in government, as revealed in the White House tapes from Watergate days.   Roll Eyes
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #24 - Feb 28th, 2017 at 7:35pm
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Your boy just went on FOX News this morning and called for using the polygraph to find out who's leaking in the White House.
                   


At least it would be specific issue testing. In fact, a CIT may be applicable.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #25 - Feb 28th, 2017 at 9:49pm
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Ex Member wrote on Feb 28th, 2017 at 7:35pm:
At least it would be specific issue testing. In fact, a CIT may be applicable.


Arkhangelsk - God member - Are you freaking kidding me?  Exactly what would, or wouldn't the testing results prove?

A possibility that someone may, or may not have done something?  The polygraph amounts to little more than an approved method to interrogate and threaten the crap out of innocent people.

According to the Law (and DOD regulations), the polygraph results alone may not be used as the sole basis to convict someone - so why else use it?  If everyone knew this going in, they would have to stop using the damn полиграф машина, right?

RISE UP PEOPLE!
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #26 - Feb 28th, 2017 at 11:24pm
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Exactly what would, or wouldn't the testing results prove?

In the case of the CIT, that the subject had specific knowledge which was encoded into memory.
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #27 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 1:55am
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A possibility that someone may, or may not have done something?  The polygraph amounts to little more than an approved method to interrogate and threaten the crap out of innocent people.

According to the Law (and DOD regulations), the polygraph results alone may not be used as the sole basis to convict someone - so why else use it?  If everyone knew this going in, they would have to stop using the damn полиграф машина, right?


This might certainly foul up CIA recruitment processes.

Of course neither federal laws nor DOD regulations appear to apply very much in Langley!   Grin
  

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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #28 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 2:01pm
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xenonman wrote on Mar 1st, 2017 at 1:55am:
This might certainly foul up CIA recruitment processes.


I haven't done any research into the CIA regulations regarding the use of the polygraph, so I can't speak to that.

DoD regulations though, specifically prohibit taking any unfavorable actions based solely on the results of the polygraph exam - except for initial eligibility/access.   Should this policy be enforced, exams administered to previously cleared employees will be useless - but only if the employees know about the regulation.

Everyone going in to take a polygraph needs to know this simple fact!

During my ordeal (5 polys in 3 years), I was told not to do any research in to the polygraph because it could affect my performance -and possibly produce a false positive.  Do you think that they don't want you to know that no unfavorable administrative actions can be taken against you based solely on the results of the test?

Why isn't this important detail more widely known?  Perhaps it is to perpetuate that "aura of mystery" you talked about earlier.

Then, you have people like Arkhangelsk of course, who still believe it can magically identify things that you have "encoded in memory."
  
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Re: DIA's Insider Threat Program
Reply #29 - Mar 1st, 2017 at 2:41pm
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Then, you have people like Arkhangelsk of course, who still believe it can magically identify things that you have "encoded in memory."
                   


John M.
I am not a revolutionary nor an activist. I am but a polymath standing in awe of the universe around me. I do share your concern for those who would use the polygraph as a prop to carry out an interrogation. But, you are wrong in your zeal to discount the entire field of forensic psychophysiology. It is indeed possible to detect memory using peripheral indices commonly measured with the polygraph, the P300 Event Related Potential as well as Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging. I suggest you do some research before embarrassing yourself with snarky comments.
  
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