Normal Topic CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both (Read 1997 times)
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CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Aug 21st, 2016 at 2:33pm
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CIA Talent Development Office Deputy Chief Ronald S. Patrick (CIA photo)


Ronald S. Patrick, the CIA's deputy director for talent development, recently characterized the pseudoscience of polygraphy as "an 'exceedingly reliable' way to find out whether you've been truthful" in a single-source article by New York Times Magazine writer Malia Wollan:

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/magazine/how-to-pass-a-cia-background-check.ht...

How to Pass a C.I.A. Background Check

Tip

By MALIA WOLLAN AUG. 19, 2016

“Withholding information from us will not work in your favor,” says Ronald S. Patrick, deputy director of talent development at the Central Intelligence Agency, which receives up to 150,000 résumés a year. Applicants who are offered a job go through a monthslong security clearance, including an intense background check. To pass, you can’t have been convicted of a felony (“That’s a showstopper for us”); also, no recent illegal drug use. You will be asked about drugs in the application. Tell the truth. “We don’t expect you to be shockingly, squeaky clean,” Patrick says. “We expect you to have lived a life, to have exercised bad judgment, to have gone through adolescence and made mistakes.”

Get your finances in order. “The No. 1 reason why Americans spy is for financial gain or need,” Patrick says. The C.I.A. sees bad credit and mountainous debt as potential liabilities. Prepare to be spied on. Investigators will come to your town; walk your streets; talk to your ex-colleagues, former roommates and nosy neighbors. They’re looking for people not listed as your character references, especially those who don’t like you. “I went through a lot of shoes,” Patrick says of his former role as a background investigator.

Keep your romantic interests American. “If you’re in love with a Russian citi­zen,” Patrick says, “we cannot take that risk.” Sign over your medical records. “Tell us everything,” Patrick says. “It may be embarrassing. It may be something you want to forget, something you’ve put in your past — tell us about it anyway.”

Be prepared to take a mandatory polygraph test, which Patrick describes as an “exceedingly reliable” way to find out whether you’ve been truthful. You will have many chances to disclose your secrets. Reveal them early and often. If investigators find out late in the process, through the polygraph interrogation or from sources, that you’re a regular stoner, say, or that your father is an arms smuggler, it will not reflect well on your trustworthiness. “This is the very last question we ask in the polygraph,” Patrick says. “ ‘Is there anything else that you want to tell us that we haven’t talked about?’ ”


Patrick should touch base with retired CIA polygrapher John F. Sullivan, who has more realistically opined that the CIA, "…an honest subject has no better chance than a dishonest subject of getting through the process."

Moreover, polygraph "testing" is easily confounded by simple countermeasures that polygraph operators cannot detect.
« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2016 at 2:51pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2016 at 6:34pm
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The only liar and fool here is you;  your two polygraph failures are proof;  and of course you can't admit now that you attempted to use countermeasures since that would destroy your credibility with your minions after 15+ years of denial.
  
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #2 - Aug 23rd, 2016 at 2:03am
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quickfix wrote on Aug 22nd, 2016 at 6:34pm:
The only liar and fool here is you

Ronald S. Patrick has described the polygraph as "an exceedingly reliable way to find out whether you’ve been truthful".

Do you agree with him?
  
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #3 - Aug 23rd, 2016 at 7:38pm
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I can't speak for the CIA specifically, but I can say that in the hands of a trained, competent examiner, it is a very useful tool.  Furthermore, in the military, attempting to engage in countermeasures is a court-martial offense under Article 92.  Of the last three fools who attempted to do so, one was court-martialed (commissioned officer), and the other two were issued general officer letters of reprimand and forced to retire/separate from the service.
  
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #4 - Aug 23rd, 2016 at 10:30pm
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Aunty Agony wrote on Aug 23rd, 2016 at 2:03am:
Do you agree with him?

quickfix wrote on Aug 23rd, 2016 at 7:38pm:
I can't speak for the CIA specifically, but I can say that in the hands of a trained, competent examiner, it is a very useful tool.

So, no, then.
  
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #5 - Aug 24th, 2016 at 1:52am
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As the NAS found, polygraph "screening" is grossly unreliable.

Why is the accuracy so low?

IMHO... Because a lot of people have misplaced guilt feelings, and the polygraph "test" can be easily beaten -- or at least confounded -- by following simple instructions freely available on the internet..

But what do I know... I'm only a lowly polygraph operator.
  

Daniel Mangan, M.A.
Full Member, American Polygraph Association
Certified PCSOT Examiner

Website: www.polygraphman.com
Email: polygraphexam@gmail.com
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #6 - Aug 24th, 2016 at 3:14am
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quickfix wrote on Aug 22nd, 2016 at 6:34pm:
The only liar and fool here is you;  your two polygraph failures are proof;  and of course you can't admit now that you attempted to use countermeasures since that would destroy your credibility with your minions after 15+ years of denial.


For the record, I failed the polygraph twice despite answering all relevant questions truthfully and was accused by a polygraph operator of using polygraph countermeasures when I not only didn't use them, but didn't even know what they are.
  

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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #7 - Aug 24th, 2016 at 4:02am
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quickfix wrote on Aug 23rd, 2016 at 7:38pm:
I can't speak for the CIA specifically, but I can say that in the hands of a trained, competent examiner, it is a very useful tool.  Furthermore, in the military, attempting to engage in countermeasures is a court-martial offense under Article 92.  Of the last three fools who attempted to do so, one was court-martialed (commissioned officer), and the other two were issued general officer letters of reprimand and forced to retire/separate from the service.


The polygraph may at times be useful for getting admissions from naive and gullible persons, but it has no scientific basis and is vulnerable to simple countermeasures that polygraph operators cannot detect.

As countermeasure case files leaked to AntiPolygraph.org reveal, the sorts of polygraph countermeasures being "detected" by federal polygraph operators are crude manipulations that anyone who understands polygraph procedure wouldn't do.
  

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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #8 - Aug 29th, 2016 at 6:24am
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At least this Agency scumbag is honest about the fact that during the copious BI, they will attempt to find people who dislike the applicant, in an effort to dig up as much dirt on the applicant as is possible.

He might have been equally forthcoming about how minuscule are the chances of any one applicant ever being hired by Langley.

I'm so sick of articles such as this which continue to glorify and exalt the CIA, and its vile employment practices.

Another fringe benefit of working at Langley:  Your coworkers will all be exotic specimens like our "quickfix" here. Grin



« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2016 at 2:57pm by xenonman »  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #9 - Aug 29th, 2016 at 6:36am
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I always find hilarious all the grandiose, exotic, euphemistic, and deceitful titles the Agency gives to all its "directorates" and managers!
Grin
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #10 - Aug 29th, 2016 at 6:47am
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quickfix wrote on Aug 22nd, 2016 at 6:34pm:
The only liar and fool here is you;  your two polygraph failures are proof;  and of course you can't admit now that you attempted to use countermeasures since that would destroy your credibility with your minions after 15+ years of denial.


Re:  Liars and fools.
There is at least one more:  Our mole from the Office of Security, the quick-draw  "fix-it" man!    Grin
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

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Re: CIA Deputy Director of Talent Development Ronald S. Patrick Is a Liar, a Fool, or Both
Reply #11 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 1:31pm
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This NYT article is so vile that I think it deserves another pass!

The BI process for employment at the Agency is just as, or even possibly more, onerous than the polygraph "interview".

Part of what this Agency liar and/or fool says is quite accurate, except grossly understated.

Getting through the Agency's BI is so difficult that "surviving" it is a matter of pure luck.

Obviously, having a Russian lover will largely block any application process.  Here are some other, unstated requisites for getting through a BI for Langley:

1.  Come from a family with an upper-middle or upper class background.  This will be most helpful in avoiding any adverse police contact, as well as avoiding the danger of unfavorable credit/financial complications.  It will also make it more likely that the applicant will not have an extensive employment history, thus reducing the possibility of adverse comments and recommendations from supervisors and coworkers.

Coming from a home with a large lot will reduce the chance for adverse comments/recommendations from the applicant's neighbors.

Having a background of  attendance at a private school or academy, or in an affluent public school district will help in avoiding the possibility of any derogatory comments/recommendations by high school faculty.  (Yes, the BI actually digs for dirt that far back in an applicant's history!).

Be a good enough "chameleon" so as to be able to avoid the likelihood of derogatory remarks from peers.

Then all that the successful applicant need do is just to remember to tighten the anal sphincter for the duration of the polygraph intimidation.

ETC. AD INFINITUM

Having met all the above-suggested (but never specified) criteria will almost assure the applicant  a place in the exalted halls of Langley, and the successful applicant will be automatically elevated to the status of a super patriot who will "risk" life and limb for the country while under hostile enemy fire at Langley, or at any US Embassy or Consulate the world over!

Grin
  

What do we call it when every employee of the Agency's Office of Security
and Office of Personnel drowns in the Potomac?   A great beginning!

The best intelligence community employee is a compromised IC employee!
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