Normal Topic Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing" (Read 2985 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5815
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Jun 2nd, 2008 at 11:39am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Dr. Michael Langan has graciously agreed to allow us to post on AntiPolygraph.org his 1995 article, "The Art of Deception: Polygraph Lie Detection." His criticisms of polygraphy remain valid today, and his article makes a good introduction to the pseudoscience of polygraphy:

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-053.shtml
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 437
Joined: Jun 5th, 2006
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #1 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 7:46pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr Maschke

Can I point out that the same issue of the now defunct magazine where Dr. Langan's article originally appeared also featured articles entitled, Adventures in the Porn Store, The Gray Art of John Wayne Gacy, and A Housewife Hooker's Story.  Hardly peer reviewed research.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Online


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5815
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #2 - Jun 2nd, 2008 at 7:56pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
pailryder,

Indeed, Dr. Langan's article is not a research article. But it is not presented as such. Rather, he writes for a general audience, drawing on primary sources. And his critique of polygraphy is spot-on.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 8:19am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
The author sure hit this nail on the head:

"The APA is a professional organization for polygraph examiners who have complete faith in the accuracy of the test. They have their own trade journal Polygraph in which they report scientifically worthless studies and brandish anecdotes of the wonders of their trade. The majority of these members can pride themselves on completing a 6 week to 6 month post- high school training course in the art of polygraphy. They have no formal training in medicine, psychology, physiology, or behavior; the very disciplines on which the testing is based. The majority of them cater to the legal system wherein their economic livelihood depends."


TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box notguilty1
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 300
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2008
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2008 at 3:26pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
T.M. Cullen wrote on Jun 3rd, 2008 at 8:19am:
The author sure hit this nail on the head:

"The APA is a professional organization for polygraph examiners who have complete faith in the accuracy of the test. They have their own trade journal Polygraph in which they report scientifically worthless studies and brandish anecdotes of the wonders of their trade. The majority of these members can pride themselves on completing a 6 week to 6 month post- high school training course in the art of polygraphy. They have no formal training in medicine, psychology, physiology, or behavior; the very disciplines on which the testing is based. The majority of them cater to the legal system wherein their economic livelihood depends."


TC


I'd like to see an intelligent response to this article from the pros.... I won't hold my breath
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Lethe
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 233
Joined: Apr 15th, 2007
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #5 - Jun 7th, 2008 at 1:50am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
John Reid, the inventor of the Control Question Test claimed 99% accuracy. This is clearly not accurate. [internal citation omitted]


I am going to nominate this for understatement of the year.

I'm sure Mr Reid didn't really believe his own number; he was just saying that to make his creation look really cool.  If perchance he did believe that it is 99% accurate, he must have been smoking something that'd disqualify him for work even at McDonald's.

Now, I do think that Dr Langan is a bit misleading on the way a CQ test works.

Quote:
The assumption is, that if you are prevaricating, the relevant questions will cause a greater response than the control questions. So if the question "Have you ever been late for an appointment?" (control question) elicits less of an emotive response on the polygraph equipment than "Did you murder and rape your girlfriend?" (relevant question) you have failed the test. And, according to the American Polygraph Association (APA) you are lying. Assuming the subject is innocent, it is fairly obvious that he would respond with more emotional autonomic activity to a question regarding a recently deceased loved one than he would an inquiry about punctuality. Obvious to everyone, that is, but the APA.


He neglects to indicate all of the lies and acting that go into this.  I don't think "are you punctual" would be used as a CT opposite "did you murder and rape your girlfriend?" (and the word "rape", as I understand it, is far too emotionally charged; it elicits responses even in innocent people, so other, less loaded, terms would be used--but this is a minor point).  The polygrapher would make the subject think that if he admits to ever being late to a meeting that they'll assume he did commit the crime, thus heightening the response that the subject will have to the question.

Still, Dr Langan makes some good points and brings together a number of critical comments on the polygraph.  An interesting, albeit imperfectly argued, article.
  

Is former APA President Skip Webb evil or just stupid?

Is former APA President Ed Gelb an idiot or does the polygraph just not work?

Did you know that polygrapher Sackett doesn't care about detecting deception to relevant questions?
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"
Reply #6 - Jun 8th, 2008 at 7:39pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
To be fair, however, the author has never attended the 14 week polygraph course, so he might not really know what he is talking about.

TC
« Last Edit: Jun 8th, 2008 at 9:17pm by T.M. Cullen »  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo
Michael Langan, M.D. on Polygraph "Testing"

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X