Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Counter-countermeasure Techniques (Read 98943 times)
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Polygraph Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Sep 25th, 2003 at 12:42pm
Print Post  
In cases where a polygrapher suspects countermeasure use, he/she may resort to either or both of the following techniques: 1) the "Silent Answer Test"; 2) the "Yes Test." These techniques are nothing new: they are described in John E. Reid and Fred E. Inbau's classic polygraph textbook, Truth and Deception: The Polygraph ("Lie-Detector") Technique (2nd edition, 1977) as well as in James Allen Matte's Forensic Psychophysiology Using the Polygraph (J.A.M. Publications, 1996).

AntiPolygraph.org has received information that the FBI is using these techniques, and it is timely to review them here.

In the "Silent Answer Test" the subject is instructed to remain silent and to answer the questions in his/her head. Matte explains the Silent Answer Test in Chapter 19 of Forensic Psychophysiology Using the Polygraph:

Quote:
Several years ago, while conducting a psychophysiological veracity (PV) examination using the polygraph for a defense attorney on a suspected arsonist, this author observed that in both the first and second polygraph charts, the examinee consistently took a deep breath while listening to the relevant questions, which caused a substantial rise in the electrodermal response (GSR) pen. The excessive amount of air taken in by the examinee as a result of the deep breath naturally caused a need for less air intake in subsequent breathing cycles, causing a suppression pattern commonly found in a reaction tracing segment. However, the cause for the rise in the GSR pen and the breathing suppression could not be attributed to the activation of the sympathetic system while a logical scientific explanation for this physiological occurrence could also be attributed to another factor, the deep breath.

The fact that this examinee only took deep breaths while listening to the relevant questions and not while listening to the control questions would tend to indicate that the examinee's greatest concern or psychological set was focused onto the relevant questions. The possibility that the deep breaths may be a form of attempted countermeasure must also be considered.

In order to eliminate the distortion caused by the deep breath, this author decided to administer a Silent Answer Test (SAT) as the third chart. The examinee was advised that a third chart would be conducted using the same identical questions, but that this time, instead of answering the questions aloud, he was to listen carefully and then answer each question to himself truthfully but silently, in other words, he remains silent throughout this third chart.  A review and interpretation of the third chart containing the silent answer test revealed strong and consistent responses to the relevant questions and a lack of any deep breath or other distortion in the entire chart. A fourth chart was then administered similar to charts one and two requiring a verbal response from the examinee, which subsequently revealed a deep breath on the last relevant question only, but which clearly indicated strong responses in all tracings on the relevant questions. The conclusion of attempted deception to the relevant questions was verified by a confession from the examinee who admitted taking the deep breaths in an attempt to distort the chart tracings.  Research conducted by Frank S. Horvath and John E. Reid (1972) revealed that the Silent Answer Test produces better respiratory patterns by eliminating causes of distortions from the examinee who prepares himself or herself to answer each question aloud by inhaling a great amount of air; from the examinee who loudly bellows his or her answer to emphasize his or her denial; from the examinee who feels compelled to give an elaborate answer instead of a simple "yes" or "no" as instructed; and from the examinee whose throat is dry or irritated necessitating the clearing of his or her throat or coughing at intervals during the test.

Their research further indicated an enhancement of the utility of the electrodermal (GSR) recording. The SAT not only produced a chart with greater purity of tracing but also acted as an effective stimulation test for the subsequent polygraph tests/charts requiring a verbal answer.

The stimulating effect of the silent answer test on the guilty examinee may be due to the dilemma encountered when told he or she is not to answer the questions aloud but truthfully and silently to himself or herself. Previously the examinee has geared his or her defenses so that his or verbal answer to the relevant questions would not betray him or her. Now the examinee wonders whether he or she should answer those questions truthfully to himself or herself and presumably not show a reaction, which may reflect a different pattern than the previous charts, or silently answer them the same way as before and perhaps show a strong reaction as he or she may have on previous charts. This causes an inner conflict, a feeling of helplessness, which carries over into the subsequent test requiring a verbal response. The guilty examinee must now readjust his or her defenses again in preparation for his or her verbal responses to the relevant questions, which causes his or mind to race inasmuch as the two tests are administered back-to-back. The examinee's concern is on the relevant questions, which are now an even greater threat to his or her well-being which increases the strength of his or her psychological set onto the relevant questions and creates greater and clearer responses. The Silent Answer Test has the effect of enhancing the threatening power of the relevant questions to the guilty examinee, and conversely also enhances the innocent examinee's concern over the probable-lie control questions inasmuch as the relevant questions should be of no concern to him or her.

While most polygraph techniques employ the Silent Answer Test as a stimulation test and/or countercountermeasure, usually after the second chart, some polygraph techniques use the SAT as the very first test prior to the administration of the relevant issue test and include the SAT data in their decision-making process.


The way to pass the Silent Answer Test, as with polygraph techniques where one is directed to answer out loud, is to produce stronger reactions to the "control" questions than to the "relevant" questions.

The second counter-countermeasure technique is the "Yes Test." The subject is instructed to answer all questions "Yes." (In some cases, the "control" questions may be left out.) The idea is to trick the subject who has been augmenting his/her reactions to the "control" questions into producing reactions to the relevant questions insead. If he/she does so, countermeasures use is inferred. Anyone encountering the "Yes Test," should be careful not to augment reactions to the relevant questions.

Reid & Inbau describe the "Yes Test" as follows (Truth and Deception, p. 118):

Quote:
The "Yes Test"

The "yes" test is particularly helpful in case situations where the subject has tried to evade detection by a distortion of the Polygraph tractings on his card test or other prior tests. As previously stated, the subject is instructed before this particular test to say "yes" to all questions, including those pertaining to the matter under investigation. On the "yes" test, subjects who had previously lied when they answered "no" to the same questions will often try to distort the  tracings in an effort to make their "yes" answers look like lies....

...[R]ecent experience has demonstrated that it is probably advisable to exclude control questions during this portion of a Polygraph examination. We recommend this variance so as to alleviate any confusion in the examiner's mind as to whether or not the subject is distorting his "yes" test responses because of his deception on the relevant questions or the control questions. With the elimination of the control questions from the "yes" test the examiner can be assured that if the subject attempts to distort the test he is doing so because of efforts to conceal his deception regarding the matter under investigation.

...

It is of considerable interest to note that when a subject who has been lying on his previous tests answers "yes" (and therefore truthfully) on his yes test, he may nevertheless react in blood pressure and respiration  in the same manner as though he were actually lying. The reason for this, apparently, is the fact that he views his "yes" answer as an incriminating one, and it is, therefore, disturbing to him. One the other hand, and contrary to what would normally be expected, a subject who has been telling the truth on his previous tests, may give no "lie" reactions when he says "yes" to the relevant questions on his "yes" test. He knows he has been telling the truth and apparently assumes the "yes" test is a part of the routine test procedure and is ordinarily undisturbed by the instructed lie answers....Exceptions do occur, however, and a liar may give no response when he says "yes" to the relevant questions..., whereas a truthful person may give a response."
« Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2007 at 2:25pm by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #1 - Sep 25th, 2003 at 4:21pm
Print Post  
George,

Have you reviewed Matte's supplement by any chance?

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #2 - Sep 25th, 2003 at 5:43pm
Print Post  
Marty,

No. After reviewing the contents, I decided not to purchase Matte's 2002 supplement. Why do you ask?
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #3 - Sep 25th, 2003 at 7:25pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Marty,

No. After reviewing the contents, I decided not to purchase Matte's 2002 supplement. Why do you ask?

I am increasingly intrigued by the meta psychological aspects of polygraphy. How the industry developed in spite of a weak scientific basis. The degree to which polygraphy has possibly been made stronger as a consequence of legislative restrictions, a rather unanticipated outcome. Those sorts of things.

The many related areas such "compliance" psychology and "cold reading" intrigue me too. I was fascinated, but not surprised, to see LE interrogation experts as well as sales professionals inquire into the CR art since it has been largely confined to "psychic" performers. Of course, compliance psychology is widely known.

I am leaning to purchasing Matte's set, including the CD) and was wondering if the supplement would add much. I think I will also get it since there is info about DLT's and Kleiner's book in there, both subjects are interesting.

I have a tendency to become fascinated with a subject and often go on to incorporate it it some way occupationally. Don't see how that could happen here but one never knows.

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Piezo Activity Sensor  Model 76878US
Reply #4 - Sep 28th, 2003 at 5:36am
Print Post  
Lafayette Instrument Co. is marketing a new "Piezo Activity Sensor  Model 76878US":

  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #5 - Sep 28th, 2003 at 5:44am
Print Post  
Lafayette is also peddling a device ("Countermeasure Detection System Model 76876US") that it claims is "the only device that detects BOTH physical and mental countermeasures":



Since Lafayette is in the mind reading business, perhaps they should give priority to coming up with a device that can actually detect deception.    Wink
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Other Sensors
Reply #6 - Sep 28th, 2003 at 11:19am
Print Post  
Previously, Lafayette had marketed a pneumatic "Activity Sensor." The pads you see below are inflatable air bladders:



Another device used in an attempt to detect physical countermeasures is a strain gauge that is typically placed under the front legs of the polygraph chair. Stoelting Co.'s "Portable Activity Sensor" looks like this:



Axciton produces a "motion sensor" that clips onto a leg of the polygraph chair:



To date, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect the kinds of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector using such "sensors" (or any other methodology).
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Saidme
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 311
Joined: Jun 11th, 2003
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2003 at 6:21pm
Print Post  
George

You wrote:  "To date, no polygrapher has ever demonstrated any ability to reliably detect the kinds of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector using such "sensors" (or any other methodology)."

You continue to mislead these poor unfortunate souls down the primrose path.  Why don't you just suggest confessing?   Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2003 at 8:29pm
Print Post  
Saidme,

If you genuinely believe anything I have written here is misleading, please explain and provide any documentation in support of such belief.

I note that with the National Academy of Sciences' review of the scientific evidence on the polygraph, the polygraph community had a golden opportunity to demonstrate its claimed ability to detect countermeasures, but failed to do so.

Similarly, Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge continues to go without any taker(s).
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 192
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #9 - Oct 1st, 2003 at 8:48pm
Print Post  
Those sensors are comical. I can create an internal reaction at will (adrenaline rush, I'm on fire!) while sitting perfectly still. It takes but a few minutes of practice to master that ability. Next technological improvement for the polygraph will be that box of fire thing from Dune where Paul had his hand placed in it by the witch mother.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
guest
Guest


Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #10 - Oct 3rd, 2003 at 1:58am
Print Post  
I got an idea George...and everybody's questions will be answered once and for all.  You write a letter to the FBI and cut a deal with them.  They agree to let you take your test again and you tell them that you will try every countermeasure you have "encouraged" people to use.  If they are able to catch you and identify the countermeasure, then you will abandon your site and quit this foolishness (of course that means you will have to be honest if they are able to catch you - a novel approach huh?).  If they cannot, the you get to contrinue your processing (you still have to complete the physical and academic portions to be fair about it) for your "dream job"  Sounds like a deal to me.  What do you say George.  The clock is ticking now for you!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 192
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #11 - Oct 3rd, 2003 at 2:48am
Print Post  
And reliance on the polygraph to actually determine truth or deception isn't foolish? Oh please!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5757
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #12 - Oct 3rd, 2003 at 3:23pm
Print Post  
guest,

The odds of the FBI agreeing to such an arrangement as you have proposed are so slim as not to justify the cost of a postage stamp. However, if you (or any polygraph examiner) would like to give me a personal demonstration of your purported ability to detect countermeasures, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.
  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: maschke@antipolygraph.org
Wire: @georgemaschke
Threema: S7TK4RXR
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Postal mail: Van Trigtstraat 53, 2597 VX The Hague, The Netherlands
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
DADDY-O
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 8th, 2003
Countermeasures
Reply #13 - Oct 8th, 2003 at 3:50am
Print Post  
Several things have amazed me as I have read posts over the last month.

1)  20% of the posts seem to revolve around individuals who have been convicted of molesting children.  The are not coming to learn about the polygraph, they are actively seeking ways to beat the polygraph so they can continue to MOLEST CHILDREN!  Children who will go on to repeat this cycle.

2)  20% of the posts revolve around people who are utterly confused about polygraph and by reading the TLBTLD are only lessing the effect of the questions that are to their benefit.  These people are mistakely led to think that people in LAW ENFORCEMENT do not want anyone else hired and the cards are stacked against them and that they will be a false positive.  A false positive which will serve as a scarlet letter procluding from all further employment. 

Departments and agencies do not share this information.  IT IS ILLEGAL!  People who apply for these jobs cast a wide net and if they are in the 3-5% false postive percent range they will still hook up with one of the several thousand other law enforcement agencies.

3)  30% of the people who come to this site are those who have criminal behavior they are trying to hide.  Criminal behavior which in my experience includes attempted murder, rape, armed robbery, and many cases of child molestation.  All of which would not have come to light if not for polygraph.  People who would have been sworn in and patrolled the streets today.

4)  20% are those who have nothing to hide but hear alleged horror stories about the polygraph.  Being screamed at, tortured, etc.  This doesn't happen!  Most departments tape there tests for this reason and project oversight exists.  After reading this, the person becomes scared and makes a giant leap of faith. They think there is only way to pass the testis to:
COMMIT CONTERMEASURES!!!!!

Unfortunately, they get caught.  Instead of obtaining thier dream job the research has been their demise.  People say CM's are not caught.  They are caught VIRTUALLY ALL THE TIME.  People that have nothing to hide are now disqualified.

If you have nothing to hide, met the departments guidelines and tell the truth you will pass the polygraph.

The unknown 10% are the real scary part.  What are their intentions? Are they using the information obtained on this site, through TLBTLD, and William's to try and obtain access to intelligence agencies.

Let's look at the teacher:
A man who was told he failed an intelligence polygraph and gave disqualifying confessions. 
A man who studied Arab languages and now resides outside the United States. 
A man who may receive foreign funding.
A man who teaches child molesters to beat the test.

Who is the enemy to America, Not the polygraphers who are fighting the fight every day.
The enemy is you George
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 192
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: Counter-countermeasure Techniques
Reply #14 - Oct 8th, 2003 at 4:47am
Print Post  
So why are you here, DADDY-O? By your own definition, there is a 60% probability you are a child molester or some other type of criminal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
Send TopicPrint
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo