Note that in the polygraph re-enactment shown in the video (the actual "test" had taken place earlier in Gelb's offices), Gelb somberly intones, "Be advised, Hank, any attempt at countermeasures will invalidate this test."

But Harmon Leon did, in fact use countermeasures. In his article about the exploit, Leon writes:

Quote:


It was a crude countermeasure, and misapplied at that: one shouldn't augment reactions to all questions, but rather to control questions. While it's doubtful whether the technique helped Harmon to pass, it's noteworthy that Gelb utterly failed to detect it!

Sure,

Blah, blah blah, all of you sitting around protecting your employment rofessions for a government pension fund. Did you here what I said.
Brennans Lie detector test was a false reading. There-fore an unproved science based on trick questions and trick cards. Pick a card and he tells you thats a lie. All the cards were the same. Now if you feel comfortable sending innocent people to jail, and posibly the grave. Than your a bigger pack of parasites than I originally suspected. I challenge any of you to give me a lye detector test. I will pass the test when I want to pass the test. And I will fail the test when I am emotionally upset over circumstances that would upset and depress the average human being. Throw all the technical jargon into your alledged "science" that you want to. But I'll prove it's a falsehood if you put me on your machine. There are theories, there are hypothesis, and there there is science proven by controlled experiments. I'm offering you the opportunity to prove which one your"purported science actually is,

Sincerely,
Ronald Rigoberto Parton
Author/Victim
The WestField Crossing
activateamericatrademarks

Oh. My. Goodness.  That story you linked to, "Bullshitting the Lie Detector," is so funny.  I highly commend it to everyone.  This guy's story was so ridiculous in so many ways.  The producers should have seen through it so easily, but I guess they were just relying on the polygraph.

Quote:


But those faults belong to the producers, obviously not to any polygrapher.  But a question for polygraphers among us here: why do you think Gelb didn't detect the crude use of countermeasures?   

Secondly, if he hadn't used any countermeasures, would the type of questions that Gelb would have asked, given the made up background he was about the case, should he have been able to tell that the dude's reactions were screwy?  For instance, in the story, one of the relevant questions is "Did you do marijuana while on probation last January?"  The subject replies "no"--which is true, since he wasn't on probation last January.  Would there have been other questions asked on the box that would have established whether or not he was on probation?  Or would his response to that question have indicated deception since he wasn't on probation?

Anyway, the big thing is that Gelb, presumably a well-qualified poly, was apparently unable to detect a very crude use of countermeasures.  How is this explicable?

Mack,

La Salle University in Mandeville, Louisiana, was never a regionally accredited degree granting institution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kirk_diploma_mills

Due diligence has indeed been done in investigating Ed Gelb's fraudulent claim to be a Ph.D. You'll find documentation here:

https://antipolygraph.org/articles/article-036.shtml

Note: The majority of this post was copied from a previous post of mine and moved to this thread, because Dr. Maschke indicated that this was a more appropriate location for information concerning the story about how Harmon Leon told the truth during a polygraph test and how the polygraph examiner was able to detect/catch him telling the truth despite the fact that Harmon Leon was deliberately attempting to distort the results.

I hadn't heard this Harmon Leon story so I looked it up. 
I viewed the video on YOUTUBE here: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv-cUD5RY9M

I read Harmon Leon's account here: http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-05-25/news/bullshitting-the-lie-detector/

and  also read the response to his article by the shows producer here: http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-06-22/news/the-infiltrator-who-proved-nothing/

Saying that he completely fooled Ed Gelb is a bit of an exaggeration.
First,  Harmon Leon was not on parole or probation so when he ansered "yes" to the question, "Do you plan to tell the truth on this test whether you knowingly used marijuana while on probation?"  He was telling the truth. 
When he answered "No" to the question "Did you do marijuana while on probation last January?" He was again telling the truth.
The results of his polygraph were that he was telling the truth on these questions.
But, your conclusion is that he "Fooled" Ed Gelb. 

In Summary  Gonzo Journalist tells truth on the test. Test shows Gonzo Journalist told the truth on the test. Conclusion: Person administering test Fooled?  HARDLY

Second  The real message you should get from all three sources is that even though Harmon Leon claims "After searching the Internet, I decided the best way to beat a polygraph test was to put a tack in my shoe and poke myself when each question was asked."  He failed to cause sufficient distortion in his charts to prevent Ed Gelb from  arriving at the conclusion that this Gonzo Journalist who successfully lied to the producers about his arrest and probation to the extent of forging a police report had in fact told the truth about using marijuana on probation.

I don't know where on the internet he got his countermeasure advice, but I do know that the N.A.S. study stated that there isn't any credible evidence or scientific research that supports the idea that it is easy to train examinees to “beat” both the polygraph and trained examiners. 

NEW NEWS
 Is It Possible To Beat A Lie Detector?
http://www.kutv.com/content/gephardt/story.aspx?content_id=76ab9cce-7d8e-4170-b7...

Sancho Panza 
[font=Arial][/font]

I don't see how this could reasonably be characterized as anything less than an utter failure of the polygraph.

The subject lied about his name, lied about his backstory, was not on probation or parole, and stomped on a tack in his shoe on every question.  He created a photoshopped police report and invented a nonexistent girlfriend.  Ed Gelb was unable to detect any deception and was not even able to detect the fact that the guy was stomping on a tack in his shoe on every question.

I don't see how anyone can reasonably claim that when Harmon was asked, "Do you plan to tell the truth on this test whether you knowingly used marijuana while on probation?" he answered truthfully because he did not use marijuana.  Part of that question includes the fact that he was on probation, and Harmon most certainly knew that he wasn't on probation during the time period in question.  By answering the question at all he would be lying, but Gelb couldn't pick up on that.  

When Harmon was asked, "Did you do marijuana while on probation last January?" he again lied when he answered, since he wasn't on probation.  Not to mention that none of us know if he actually used marijuana during the time in question.  But I think that is irrelevant, since his whole story was a lie from start to finish.

If a clean-living friend of a police applicant fills in for them on their pre-employment polygraph, do you think a competent (by APA standards) polygraph examiner should be able to detect that they are not speaking to the actual applicant?  Should the examiner be able to detect that the person they are testing is giving them a fictional history and is essentially basing their answers off a sizeable lie (i.e. - that they are not the person the examiner thinks they are)?  Should the examiner be able to detect that the subject is stomping on a tack every time they are asked a question?

Or would it be more reasonable to dissect every answer and try to claim that certain answers to certain parts of certain questions were technically true, and therefore the polygraph functioned as advertised?

I think it is simply common sense that if a test subject is lying about his name, lying about his backstory, and stomping on a tack in his shoe on every question he should not "pass" a test that is supposedly able to detect deception.

Isn't a pre-test interview standard procedure?  Isn't Ed Gelb a former police officer?  Yet he was unable to detect anything unusual when he talked to "Hank" about an arrest that never occurred, and probation (or parole) that "Hank" was never on, and about a failed drug test that "Hank" never took?

SanchoPanza wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:01pm:


Sancho, That would be great if the machine could in fact reliably do that but, as we have come to learn it cannot and never has.
Now, if by "process" you mean "lets get past the silly machine game and on to the interrogation" then MAYBE you have something.
Your insistence that polygraphy is in fact accurate  does not make it so.