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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I've always wanted to be in law enforcement... (Read 28765 times)
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #30 - Apr 30th, 2008 at 3:29am
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yankeedog wrote on Apr 30th, 2008 at 1:23am:
[You’re absolutely correct NG1!  These polygraph people should not compare themselves to doctors.  Why, just last week we had a MURDER in which the medical doctor informed us that our victim had TWO gunshot wounds to the head.  In fact, annotated such on his medical charts.  Only a few problems with the medical “opinion”  (There’s that nasty word opinion).  The evidence at the scene didn’t suggest MURDER, and then, the autopsy showed only one gunshot wound to the head.  Oh my God!  It was actually a suicide.  

Well, that settles it.  We now have proof positive that the medical profession is quackery.  The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Come on guys.  Is that the best you can do.  I know, you hate to concede, but as you are well aware the polygraph has been effective (not perfect) for decades.  Polygraph use is on the increase.  And the polygraph is going to continue to increase.  And there will be, on that very rare occasion, a wrong call made and an opinion will be rendered that is “wrong,” just like the good doctor did to us.  But, you don’t see us running around and accusing the doctor of being a quack.  He made a decision based upon the information that was before him.  It happens because it isn’t a perfect world.   Roll Eyes




Hey Yankee,
The fact in your doctor case is that the doc correctly called the "death" by a gunshot wound!! He is a doctor not a cop.
Now if the guy was alive when he called it and not dead at all and the "gun shot wound "was a ingrown hair then he would be a quack!
Polygraphers on the other hand often find liers truthfull and the honest liers. I know it happened to me.
So, you see your example makes no sense. But if you can compare yourselves to doctors then I wouldn't expect you to see the obvious.

You guys keep compairing yourselves to the medical profession.
Let me say this slowly..... Y O U   A R E   N O T  D O C T O R S!!
You have taken a course that takes a few weeks so, a barber would be a better comparison ( training wise ) and you use this nonsense to sit in judgment of others when the results amout to nothing more than the examners opinion.
There are many many examples of this if you care to read.
If the "occasions that wrong calls" as you put it are so "rare", then why is this site so successful?? It can't be because of us "few" whinners and liers that make is so.

The only thing your machine, I will agree is effective for, is that in many cases people who really believe in it's ability to accually detect lies that in fact are, or plan on lying will confess instead.
In that case,  the process did work but does that mean the Poliygraph machine worked? NO it doesn't! cleaver I admit but not evidence that the machine works.
Although the Poligraph industry would have us believe that even that case would be a sucessfull result even though the computer could have been turend off!!
Roll Eyes


  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #31 - Apr 30th, 2008 at 4:59am
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NG,

Maybe they should start wearing white lab coats?

I think it would make for a good "visual" to go along with their charade of pseudo-scientistic  respectability.

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #32 - Apr 30th, 2008 at 2:33pm
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T.M. Cullen wrote on Apr 30th, 2008 at 4:59am:
NG,

Maybe they should start wearing white lab coats?

I think it would make for a good "visual" to go along with their charade of pseudo-scientistic  respectability.

TC


Hey TC, Yes!! white lab coats would help their comparison to doctors that way they would at least look like doctors, but then again barbers wear white coats and....... they are still barbers.
I still can't believe they think that comparison makes any sense but, I guess to keep thier BS alive they have to hold on to that.
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #33 - Apr 30th, 2008 at 3:42pm
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Sorry boys!

I don't look good in white.... Grin


Sackett
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #34 - Apr 30th, 2008 at 11:10pm
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notguilty1 wrote on Apr 30th, 2008 at 3:29am:
Hey Yankee,
The fact in your doctor case is that the doc correctly called the "death" by a gunshot wound!! He is a doctor not a cop.


No, you are misrepresenting the information which has been provided, which is not at all unusual.   UndecidedYou see my little friend, when you get caught, as you have just been, misrepresenting the truth, you are deemed dishonest or lacking in credibility.  The doctor in the situation I described specifically said the victim had “two” gunshot wounds to the head, not “a” gunshot wound to the head. There is an obvious and distinctive difference. You do understand the difference between singular and plural, yes? The doctor was mistaken, but not deliberately or intentionally as you have been caught doing,  and made an opinion based upon the evidence before him.  But, he was still wrong in the end. 

And no, we don’t try to compare ourselves with doctors (but I do like the idea of the white lab coat – it could portray an aura of academic knowledge).  We are a separate, respected profession.  The analogies  (analogy - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based) are simply to provide an example so that people who are actually trying to learn something can understand.  Just as an auto mechanic is a profession (they make mistakes, too).  We could use them for analogies also.

And Sackett, you might not look good in white, but I sure do!! Wink
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #35 - May 1st, 2008 at 3:28am
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yankeedog wrote on Apr 30th, 2008 at 11:10pm:
notguilty1 wrote on Apr 30th, 2008 at 3:29am:
Hey Yankee,
The fact in your doctor case is that the doc correctly called the "death" by a gunshot wound!! He is a doctor not a cop.


No, you are misrepresenting the information which has been provided, which is not at all unusual.   UndecidedYou see my little friend, when you get caught, as you have just been, misrepresenting the truth, you are deemed dishonest or lacking in credibility.  The doctor in the situation I described specifically said the victim had “two” gunshot wounds to the head, not “a” gunshot wound to the head. There is an obvious and distinctive difference. You do understand the difference between singular and plural, yes? The doctor was mistaken, but not deliberately or intentionally as you have been caught doing,  and made an opinion based upon the evidence before him.  But, he was still wrong in the end.  

And no, we don’t try to compare ourselves with doctors (but I do like the idea of the white lab coat – it could portray an aura of academic knowledge).  We are a separate, respected profession.  The analogies  (analogy - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based) are simply to provide an example so that people who are actually trying to learn something can understand.  Just as an auto mechanic is a profession (they make mistakes, too).  We could use them for analogies also.

And Sackett, you might not look good in white, but I sure do!! Wink


Yankee,
Your need to "catch people" is deep and if you need to extend that to your off time, have fun. Just like the silly Polygraph test I failed cost me nothing except time, your on line "examination" has little effect on me or the truth regarding Polygraphs.
You may not compare yourself to a doctor but your friend Sackett does it all the time. As for the comparision you mentioned analogy - a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based
If you guys did start wearing lab coats that would be the only comparision to medical doctors!!
And your suggestion about using lab coats -  but I do like the idea of the white lab coat – it could portray an aura of academic knowledge
I hope you woud enjoy the aura becasue thats the only thing that would bring "academic knowledge" to you guys.
Look Yankee I'll say it once again for you too.
If Polygraphs worked you and Sackett would have no need to come here and convince the viewers that your non-science is valid.
Show me a web site where doctors go to convince people that thier science is valid...... It doesn't exsist. Why?? Because you need to do what you can to limit the damage that GM, this site and posters who have the drive to come here and expose what you do!
So, go ahead and do what you do. There are many unsuspecting victims out there. But, they will seek information just look at the number of "views" on this site.
Your science is already insignificant in a court of law ..... Why??? Because studies have shown it to be UNRELIABLE.
Just because your machine says "he's lying" dosen't make it so even when he confesses since there have been many cases where a examinee has confessed in a post failed Poly interogation only to be proven innocent by other means later. So much for Polygraphs.
But you know what Yankee you need not worry if Sackett is right there are only 5-6 of us "anti whiners" out there Grin
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #36 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:21pm
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Sorry to rehash this topic, but I'm currently in the same boat.
I'm going for my polygraph test for my shriff's office in a few weeks and one of the questions is supposedly going to be about child pornography. I've never subjected myself to it as it is disgusting, but the first two things that come to mind when discussing the topic are: when I was in high school, seeing pictures of girls in class, and also a coworker of mine was arrested for child pornography a few years back. If those two things are on my mind when I answer no, will the test read a false positive? Or should I just tell my BI about those two things? There wasn't a very clear answer in the above posts. Thanks in advance everyone!
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #37 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:35pm
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Bluestang01 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:21pm:
Sorry to rehash this topic, but I'm currently in the same boat.
I'm going for my polygraph test for my shriff's office in a few weeks and one of the questions is supposedly going to be about child pornography. I've never subjected myself to it as it is disgusting, but the first two things that come to mind when discussing the topic are: when I was in high school, seeing pictures of girls in class, and also a coworker of mine was arrested for child pornography a few years back. If those two things are on my mind when I answer no, will the test read a false positive? Or should I just tell my BI about those two things? There wasn't a very clear answer in the above posts. Thanks in advance everyone!


Do not mention those things when asked about whether you've ever viewed child pornography. The only correct answer is "no." Any mention of seeing naked pictures of classmates while in school, or offering an excuse as to why you might show a reaction to a question about having viewed child pornography -- is inviting a very uncomfortable interrogation and an accusation of deception. Don't do it.

Instead, read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, available on this site, and learn the dos and don'ts of polygraphy:

https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #38 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:43pm
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Sorry, but I'm not reading 220 pages about a polygraph. But what if I say no and in the back of my head in thinking of these instances and it says I lied? Then I just have to accept my fate?
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #39 - Jan 15th, 2016 at 9:12pm
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Bluestang01 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:21pm:
when I was in high school, seeing pictures of girls in class, and also a coworker of mine was arrested for child pornography a few years back.

Having a coworker who got into trouble is not viewing child pornography. What were the particulars about the high school girls? Were they sexually suggestive poses? How did you come across them? Were the girls the same age as yourself?
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #40 - Jan 16th, 2016 at 3:48am
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Same grade as me, just an image that a girl took of herself and sent to a guy. He then sent it around to a bunch of different people. It was never sent to me specifically and I never owned a copy of it, I just saw it at a party one night when someone pulled it up and was showing everyone. I'm sure it's really no big deal and normally I would say absolutely not, I've never viewed it. But with the polygraph I'm afraid I'm gonna be thinking about it and it trigger my response. Basically, should I tell the background investigator my concern for the question and see what he says?
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #41 - Jan 16th, 2016 at 6:34am
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Bluestang01 wrote on Jan 16th, 2016 at 3:48am:
Same grade as me, just an image that a girl took of herself and sent to a guy.

Was the picture simple nudity, or was it sexually suggestive? Not all nudity involving minors is child pornography. This is kind of a tough call and I'm out of my comfort zone here. I think I'll defer to others to chime in. But, I'm inclined to go with Greybeard.
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #42 - Jan 18th, 2016 at 2:53am
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Bluestang01 wrote on Jan 15th, 2016 at 6:43pm:
Sorry, but I'm not reading 220 pages about a polygraph.

Too bad. You might have made a great shriff.
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #43 - Jan 19th, 2016 at 7:27pm
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Bluestang01, you haven't done anything that I haven't heard a thousand times before. If it's all truthful, don't sweat it. Examiners know everybody has concerns. Often the concerns are of no relevance to the examiner, such as what you've described. You absolutely DO want to tell your examiner about this, and anything else that's worrying you. We don't expect you to present being physically relaxed (and we don't want you to try to relax!), but we DO want you to be mentally relaxed, if that makes sense to you. Discussing your concerns is the best way to "let go" of those issues that may give you problems in your exam.
  
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Re: I've always wanted to be in law enforcement...
Reply #44 - Jan 19th, 2016 at 8:19pm
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VenturousOne, I appreciate you jumping in and giving Blustang01 some advice from your perspective. I think the prevailing concern is that since he viewed a picture of a nude classmate, would the examiner consider such an admission to viewing child pornography? May I solicit your input on this?
  
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