Paradiddle, you're trying to shift the topic to countermeasures.  Are you guys specifically trained to do that?  Or do you just do so because you are only trained to deal with questions based on countermeasures?   

Anyway, I think you're still trying to have it both ways.  But I'm going to skip over much of what you've said because I think I can cut the gordian knot with a single challenge to you.  Now, let us recall the original question that this thread was designed to seek the answer to:

Is an examinee who knows how a probable lie control question test works, all else being equal, less likely to produce accurate results when tested than an identical examinee who is ignorant of how the test works?

You keep answering "no, no, no" but then go on to say stuff which seems to contradict that denial.  But I will give you an excellent chance to demonstrate the truth of what you claim.  Responding to this opportunity won't even take much of your time, it will be quite simple.  All you need to do is this: give us a list of five of your best control questions.  If, as you claim, knowing what those questions are doesn't decrease accuracy, I see no reason for you to decline this request.  If there is some other reason why you can't share them (they're under copyright, perhaps?) then you are invited to share that reason with us.

As you said previously:

Paradiddle wrote on Sep 24^th, 2007 at 6:43pm:


It seems to me that if you know you're supposed to lie and that you will indeed be maneuvered until you finally relent and tell a lie, that it would be difficult to form an intent to deceive or to be sufficiently anxious about your answer.  Thus it seems important that the subject not know which questions are controls and which questions are relevant in order that his or her physiological reactions be as natural as possible.  Also, the length to which polygraphers go in order to trick their subjects about the control questions seems to belie the claim that knowing what they are wouldn't effect the test.

So, Paradiddle, what are some of the cool control questions that you use?   

Or will you abandon this farce and simply admit that a subject who knows the control questions is less likely to produce an accurate chart, even without any countermeasures attempts?

Quote:


An equally good question would be,


Is an examinee who has attempted to educate himself about polygraph, all else being equal, more likely to produce non-deceptive results than other examinees?

It seems there is some research and inquiry into that, though people here don't like the results. I believe it was the NRC that admonished that claims that it is easy to train people to defeat the polygraph require supporting research. At present there is none.

Have fun passing your polygraphs boyz and girlz.

Lethe: Quote:


Did you steal the tests in school too?

Its no big deal, you were supposed to learn those spelling words anyway. You were just not wasting excess time studying words that weren't on the test. Right?

Its not cheating. Is it? Its just studying for the test. Right?

Are spelling test results as informative to teachers when they teach the test?

Get real, and get honest.

While we're at it, would you like us to post the questions and answers to the SAT? That couldn't hurt. Could it? It would only improve people's test scores. Right Chief?

Ludovico wrote on Sep 29^th, 2007 at 5:25pm:


You really are comparing apples to oranges here, and I think you know it.  You're being purposely obtuse and that leads the reader to see your mass arrogance.  You are trying to use tests in which the test taker has to study and the answers are found.  Yet, for polygraph the testee is not supposed to do any type of studying.  Why the hell is that?  Is it because knowledge of the test lessens the ability of the examiner to attempt discerning fact from fiction?  Bullshit is bullshit no matter how much rubbing compound is used.

pailryder wrote on Sep 29^th, 2007 at 9:28pm:

You: Bill, did you shoot your cousin?

Bill: No.

You: Did you and your cousin ever deal drugs?

Bill: Yeah, we did.

You: Uh... you're supposed to say no.

Bill: But we did.  We was selling drugs all the time.

You: But... if you sold drugs with your cousin, that means you must have murdered him!

Bill: That is not a logical conclusion.  Can I get a new polygrapher?

What do you do then?  Let me guess, you can't tell me because that would be tantamount to taking the head of the College Board hostage and forcing him (or her) to give you a perfect score on your SATs.   

Oh, and LieBabyCryBabe, I'm glad you found the thread, I hope it's amused you.  (Didn't you get the PM from me with the URL for it?)  Feel free to jump in anytime.

Mysterymeat wrote on Sep 30^th, 2007 at 3:11am:


Is Prosac and alcohol a wise combination? 

The gist of the post is simple: what do you do when the stupid examinee actually tells the truth when presented with the control question.  Can you get good results without getting him to lie?  If not, then how do you get him to lie?

Anyway, glad to entertain you, but I've gotta turn in.  10pm is my bedtime.  Sleep well everyone.