Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New and Nervous (Read 44707 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box gelb disliker
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere
Joined: Jul 28th, 2004
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #45 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 10:48am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
wow, that was some great reading!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box railroaded
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 7th, 2005
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #46 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 3:15pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
However aren't you a bit concerned on who is using this information.
I used the information on this board to make the decision to REFUSE taking the polygraph, and in all likelihood it kept me out of prison.  I thank you and my children thank you, George.

Quote:
 I have children, George, and I want them to grow up in a decent society...
I have children as well...and there was 50/50 chance that I would have lived the next 50 years in a 6x12 cell without seeing my children if I had taken the polygraph.  It was evident from the beginning of the investigation that I was presumed guilty, and I am sure the police polygrapher would have nailed it home with his "test".

Here's the kicker...I AM INNOCENT!  I used the information on this site to educate myself about my rights, the procedure and the reliability...nothing more.  I didn't come here to learn how to cheat the test.  I came here to learn about the test itself and what I read scared the shit out of me.  I am an intelligent guy...I could have employed the counter measures to insure a favorable outcome.  Instead I learned that contrary to my belief, the test DOESN'T WORK.  If I had learned here that it does indeed work, and taking it and being honest would have cleared my name, of course I would have taken it.

What I read here convinced me that the polygraph could only hurt me.  I refused to take it and instead insisted that the investigators complete their witch hunt with good old-fashioned police work.  You know what they learned?  I AM INNOCENT.  I would bet dollars to donuts (any of you cops wanna take that bet?) that had I taken the poly I would have failed and the investigation would have ended there....no questions asked...straight to jail.

Instead, I let them interview my kids, my neighbors' kids, my friends' kids...the took all my computer equipment, all my cameras, CDs, etc.  You know what they discovered?  I AM INNOCENT.

So you can call me a pervert, molester, whatever you want.  But the fact of the matter is that I am cleaner than ALL of you...I have been investigated and came out clean.  I suffered through the darkest times, I ran the gauntlet of police abuse and community scorn and I walked through the valley of the shadow of death and I have come through the other side as clean as a whistle.

And I have come through in no small part because of the information on this site.  So thank you George....from the bottom of my heart.  When I tuck my kids into bed at night, or we play at the park or I drop them at school or help with their homework....when I kiss my wife or watch a funny TV show or hear the rain....when I experience all of the little things that would have been taken away by the polygraph had I not educated myself about it, I say a silent thank you to George and this site.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box gelb disliker
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere
Joined: Jul 28th, 2004
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #47 - Dec 6th, 2005 at 7:20pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Railroaded,

  I must congratulate you on your NOT giving in to the polygraph horror.   You are wise to use this site to enrichen yourself to the biased, horrifying outcome that the polygraph can render.   Bravo!! to you and your family!!!

  Regards
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box NervousOregon
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Dec 12th, 2005
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #48 - Dec 12th, 2005 at 10:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
In Oregon when one is released on bail they sign a condition of their release that they can be subject to polygraph.  Is this really legal? I researched laws pertaining to it but thus far only found ones in regards to if you are a sex offender and they still can not be considered admissible in court hearings.  Does anyone have any other information about this and weather or not it is legal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6232
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #49 - Dec 12th, 2005 at 11:04pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
NervousOregon wrote on Dec 12th, 2005 at 10:45pm:
In Oregon when one is released on bail they sign a condition of their release that they can be subject to polygraph.  Is this really legal? I researched laws pertaining to it but thus far only found ones in regards to if you are a sex offender and they still can not be considered admissible in court hearings.  Does anyone have any other information about this and weather or not it is legal.


NervousOregon,

The authorities in your state have in all likelihood been advised by their own attorneys that such a requirement is in conformity with Oregon law. While polygraph "testing" is sheer quackery and should never be relied upon, it would be best to seek the advice of a lawyer regarding the extent to which the Oregon judiciary may (however mistakenly) rely upon it.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box NervousOregon
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 3
Joined: Dec 12th, 2005
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #50 - Dec 12th, 2005 at 11:17pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
That is part of the problem we have little to no money and there are other possibilities of a lawsuit against the county because of other technicalities of this case but mean while he may end up in jail because of one severely messed up system if he is forced to take the polygraph but is reading up on polygraph's via this site.  Part of the problem is finding a good lawyer who will take it on a contingency basis that there will be money in it for them later down the line.  But until the supposed criminal matter is cleared up we can not pursue a civil matter very easily because lawyers are not willing to take on both cases since we do not have money for the criminal.  However I will contact a lawyer about this specific technicality since I do not believe that public defense will do an effective job. Thank you for your quick response!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 6232
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #51 - Dec 12th, 2005 at 11:30pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
NervousOregon,

You might also wish to contact the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon regarding the situation that prompted you to post here. Their e-mail address is info@aclu-or.org.
  

George W. Maschke
I am generally available in the chat room from 3 AM to 3 PM Eastern time.
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
Threema: A4PYDD5S
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box reg_sex_off
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 18th, 2005
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #52 - Dec 18th, 2005 at 10:19am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
As you can tell by the log in name what I am. I am replying to this for several reasons. First off I came to this site to find out the laws regarding Parole adding this requirement and if i can refuse it. George can check the logs and see I did not download any reading material on how to beat a Poly. 
Its easy to beat a poly, all you have to do is not take one.
Now the reason for my reply:
I have taken 11 polygraphs in 8 years.
I was in a SO treatment program that required them.
First poly i failed. Reason it was on sexual history and what i revealed in treatment and I refused to talk about 1 incident because I might be prosecuted for it even though it happened in 1978 with an adult female.
1 month after failing I revealed some of the circumstances of the incident and passed the next polygraph.
A year later I took a maintenance poly. Passed.
A year after that took an Exit poly. Passed.
2 years later I pissed off my parole officer so she had me take a polygraph. I failed it.
Consequences of that where to see a pysch and take another test. I did, i revealed I had had sex outside of marriage. Not a criminal offense. Took another polygraph and failed. 
Consequences- put back into treatment program. Took another polygraph after 6 months of treatment where I did the assignments but did not reveal any further wrong-doing or law breaking. Results- Passed.
A year later took another Exit Poly. Failed.
2 weeks later took another, Failed.
This was at a time of huge emotional distress between my wife and I and looking like I was headed for a divorce. Was told I had to pass the next one or they would violate my parole and send me to prison. I revealed no wrong doing or parole violations. I demanded a different polygrapher. 2weeks later took the test.
Results of test- passed. 
Parole said it was a false pass and said I had to use the original polygrapher. 
Took his test. Results Passed.
What is the point to all this?
After 8 years of dealing with polygraphs with both pass and failed tests I assure you they are very inaccurate. Since no one can track who is posting this except but what I reveal, I have no reason to lie. Or to tell the truth. You weigh it for yourselves on what to believe or not to believe. I know this. I have committed no crimes that were asked about on the polygraph tests. In fact funny thing is on all the questions regarding crimes since my release from prison, i passed. or at least that was not the questions they(polygraphers) said i showed deception on. Questions i failed were stupid questions about have I told the whole truth to my therapist or my parole officer. 
On the last 4 tests the pertininent (spelling) question was wether I had engaged in any sexual relations with anyone other than my wife that I did not reveal to my therapist or parole officer. My answer was no. Remained no and is still no. Why did I fail 2 of the tests and pass the other 2? No one knows. Why did parole say the next to last test was a "false Pass"?  Does that mean even they know its the same as flipping a coin?
Now about this site helping criminals.
I dont think it really does. Considering how many people I have personally seen get drastic actions taken against them for failed polygraphs and only have them come back and pass the next one without revealing any thing they lied about on the first test to.
A polygraph is not going to stop someone from committing a crime.
A polygraph as a tool is total BS. Its the same as Good Cop-Bad Cop, or "I will have them go easier on you if you just admit it" and we read everyday how that false promise gets false confessions.
Why are polygraphs being forced on sex offenders? Because Sex Offenders are the easiest section of the criminal society to pick on. No one will stand up for thier rights. Not even the ACLU. I am speaking from experience here.  You can be convicted of a felony in this country and serve your time and people will give you a chance to show you will not offend again and you can get housing, employment, and assistance from groups like GoodWill and Easter Seals and the Salvation Army to help you get back into society. With 1 blaring exception. If you are convicted of a sex crime. Then forget it. No one will help. You get laid off if anyone knows of your crime. You can't find employment in any place that has females working in it.
And funny little thing about polygraph examiners. They work out of Sex Offender Treatment program offices and share in the money collected. And if your a Sex offender required to take a polygraph, that polygrapher has to be an "Approved Sex Offender Polygrapher". SO he has close ties with the treatment program. And the treatment program makes its money by having people in treatment. The SO's in treatment have to pay for all this, Plus the state also pays them. 
One reason I passed the finale 2 polygraphs even though nothing changed in my "story" was that the state was no longer subsidising my treatment and they couldn't require me to pay more. 
Here is an alarming trend I see. They fail you on the polygraphs all the way up until parole is about to put you in prison, then you pass the next poly. Why? because if your in prison, your not in the program, and as such they are not getting paid.
I dont have nothing against the treatment programs. Hell it did me a lot of good. Of course I am not a predator but I see where it does good for others too. I am stead fastly against polygraphs though. I would rather go see a Tarot card reader and have more faith in thier results than i would in a polygraph.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Smokey
Ex Member
*



Re: New and Nervous
Reply #53 - Dec 19th, 2005 at 6:11am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Reg_Sex_Off wrote: Why are polygraphs being forced on sex offenders? Because Sex Offenders are the easiest section of the criminal society to pick on. No one will stand up for thier rights. Not even the ACLU.


    As the ploygraph may not be a reliable tool, the investigators believe that it is better that nothing to get confessions.  While I don't believe that the ploygraph is useful in employment processes because it simply "weeds out" applicants who interview good  though the agency don't like, I think it may be useful in getting confessions out of scumbag sex offenders who prey on children and other innocent victims.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box gelb disliker
Senior User
***
Offline



Posts: 92
Location: ou ti nth emiddl eo fnowhere
Joined: Jul 28th, 2004
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #54 - Dec 25th, 2005 at 6:36am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
As you can see by now, polygraphs don't work, but its a good way to raise revenue to your local therapy session or LE agency.   Anyone convicted of a crime will usually pay dearly and financially.  That's all part of the crime "mill" folks.  Just a part of the system, one to keep the money flowing to LE agencies, the courts and the judicial "system."  Welcome to the real world.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Liz Lafferty
Guest


Re: New and Nervous
Reply #55 - Feb 25th, 2009 at 10:45pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
I need information about using poly graphs on mentally retarded people.  I have a man in jail who is mentally retarded and need
to know if a polygraph can even be accurate on somone who is
mentally retarded, traumatic brian injury.  Please let me know if
you have any information.  Thanks, Liz Lafferty
lizlaffertyventure5@yahoo.com
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #56 - Feb 25th, 2009 at 10:54pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
I have a man in jail who is mentally retarded and need
to know if a polygraph can even be accurate on somone who is
mentally retarded, traumatic brian injury.


Polygraphs have been determined  to be inaccurate, unreliable, and scientifically invalid for the non retarded, so I imagine the same would apply for the retarded.

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box pailryder
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 441
Joined: Jun 5th, 2006
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #57 - Feb 26th, 2009 at 1:13am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr Cullen

To be fair, even your favorite oft quoted NAS study found accuracy rates significantly above chance for some uses.
  

No good social purpose can be served by inventing ways of beating the lie detector or deceiving polygraphers.   David Thoreson Lykken
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #58 - Feb 26th, 2009 at 4:01am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
To be fair, even your favorite oft quoted NAS study found accuracy rates significantly above chance for some uses.


To wit, the NAS reported concluded the following:

"Estimate of Accuracy Notwithstanding the limitations of the quality of the empirical research and the limited ability to generalize to real-world settings, we conclude that in populations of examinees such as those represented in the polygraph research literature, untrained in countermeasures, specific-incident polygraph tests for event-specific investigations can discriminate lying from truth telling at rates well above chance, though well below perfection.

Accuracy may be highly variable across situations. The evidence does not allow any precise quantitative estimate of polygraph accuracy or provide confidence that accuracy is stable across personality types, sociodemographic groups, psychological and medical conditions, examiner and examinee expectancies, or ways of administering the test and selecting questions. In particular, the evidence does not provide confidence that polygraph accuracy is robust against potential countermeasures. There is essentially no evidence on the incremental validity of polygraph testing, that is, its ability to add predictive value to that which can be achieved by other methods."
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box T.M. Cullen
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 858
Location: Hawaii
Joined: Dec 5th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: New and Nervous
Reply #59 - Feb 26th, 2009 at 4:42am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
To be fair, even your favorite oft quoted NAS study found accuracy rates significantly above chance for some uses.


To wit, the NAS reported concluded the following:

[i]"Estimate of Accuracy Notwithstanding the limitations of the quality of the empirical research and the limited ability to generalize to real-world settings, we conclude that in populations of examinees such as those represented in the polygraph research literature, untrained in countermeasures, specific-incident polygraph tests for event-specific investigations can discriminate lying from truth telling at rates well above chance, though well below perfection.

Accuracy may be highly variable across situations. The evidence does not allow any precise quantitative estimate of polygraph accuracy or provide confidence that accuracy is stable across personality types, sociodemographic groups, psychological and medical conditions, examiner and examinee expectancies, or ways of administering the test and selecting questions. In particular, the evidence does not provide confidence that polygraph accuracy is robust against potential countermeasures. There is essentially no evidence on the incremental validity of polygraph testing, that is, its ability to add predictive value to that which can be achieved by other methods."

I can't think of anything more absurd, or cruel, than subjecting a retarded person to a polygraph interrogation on the pretext of "getting at the truth" or "eliminating" him/her as a "suspect".

TC
  

"There is no direct and unequivocal connection between lying and these physiological states of arousal...(referring to polygraph)."

Dr. Phil Zimbardo, Phd, Standford University
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
New and Nervous

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X