Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) perm reject if you fail this state police poly (Read 38951 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Erik Gustafson
Guest


perm reject if you fail this state police poly
May 20th, 2004 at 4:12pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
IF YOU FAIL THE VERMONT STATE POLICE POLYGRAPH YOU WILL BE TOTALLY DISBARRED FROM EMPLOYMENT EVEN IF YOU ASK TO HAVE IT REVIEWED I WENT UP FOR A POLYGRAPH INTERVIEW AND THE POLYGRAPHER FAILED ME ON CONTROL QUESTIONS AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO MY INTERNAL AFFAIRS UNIT ABOUT IT{I AM A OUT OF STATE POLICE OFFICER] I WENT TO THE DIRECTOR OF THE STATE POLICE AND RECENTLY GOT A RESPONSE FOR THE HEAD OF THE POLYGRAPH UNIT THAT STATES THAT I AM PERMANTELY REJECTED FROM
EMPOLYMENT WITH THEM AND THE POLYGRAPHER DENIES EVER BRINGING UP I.A. WHAT GIVES????? E-MAIL ME AT snowstud98@hotmail.com  Erik :
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box bildobaggins
Guest


Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #1 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 5:05am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Same crap happened to me recently .I didn't fail but it was inconclusive and he didn't pass me. He said my breathing was to erratic and my bodies responses were not normal. Granted I was controlling my breathing and thinking crazy thoughts on control questions. It was funny he did everything I read in the book from the stim number test to the chair with wheels and even explaining the polygraph as a machine holyer than god. And when I signed the form at the end after I made a big stink becuaze he said I was controlling my blood presure...give me a break guy. But I didn't sign the part that said "I do not want a copy of the test" and he goes oh right here you forgot one." And then I explained the question to him. There tricky and even though I didn't pass I beat the asshole. They said that after review I may be able to re start the whole process next year..crappity smack them.im.never taking another one. Questions about sex with my girlfriend, personal questions about family.  Completely un needed if you can't judge someones character after a oral board what's the point..just do the poly first and save all the trouble..
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 9:23am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
He said my breathing was to erratic and my bodies responses were not normal. Granted I was controlling my breathing and thinking crazy thoughts on control questions.

There tricky and even though I didn't pass I beat the asshole.


You did not beat anything, you got caught using counter measures.   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Sergeant1107
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 730
Location: Connecticut, USA
Joined: May 21st, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 3:01pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 9:23am:
You did not beat anything, you got caught using counter measures.  


I think if he had failed due to countermeasure usage then it could be accurately said that he was "caught" using countermeasures.

Since he was given an inconclusive, it seems much more likely that the polygraph operator simply guessed correctly that the subject was using countermeasures but was unable to prove it.   

That, of course, leads to the inevitable conclusion that countermeasure "detection" is often, if not always, simply a guess on the part of the polygraph operator.  How often do they guess correctly?  At least some of the time, as evidenced by the above-referenced post.  How often are they incorrect?

More importantly, why are they guessing at all if the polygraph procedure for detecting deception is purportedly a scientific process?
  

Lorsque vous utilisez un argumentum ad hominem, tout le monde sait que vous êtes intellectuellement faillite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 5:47pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Sergeant, 

As an examiner, I do assign the term Inconclusive to an examination where I have observed countermeasure usage.  The problem examinees have when using counter measures is the inability to stop reactions to relevant issue questions while creating reactions to control questions.  When scored the score is called inconclusive.  We generally do not say "Counter Measures were used", we simply say the exam is inconclusive and question the individual about breathing and blood pressure being out of the normal range.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 6:37pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 5:47pm:
where I have observed countermeasure usage

Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 6:52pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 5:47pm:
where I have observed countermeasure usage

Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.


The term "Properly using countermeasures" is the key.  If you have extensive knowledge regarding polygraph. physiology and psychology you may be able to "properly" use countermeasures and not be "detected".  Also practice with an examiner would be helpful.  Polygraph is not 100% accurate, it is about 86% on screening examinations IF the examiner is properly trained and experienced.  The 86% comes from field studies and lab studies.   

It is my personal opinion polygraph should never be used as a stand alone test that disqualifies an applicant.  There should always be other information developed after a failed polygraph to support disqualification.   

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #7 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 7:08pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
BB

I agree that haphazard attempts at countermeasures would present as chart anomalies which an examiner could say invalidates the collected data. I would not term this activity as a countermeasure, but rather an attempt at sabotage.

Whenever I refer to countermeasures, I refer to properly deployed countermeasures; you are correct, it is a skill requiring refinement and practice.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box depressed
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 30th, 2010
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #8 - Jun 3rd, 2011 at 11:31pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 6:52pm:
Quote:
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 3rd, 2011 at 5:47pm:
where I have observed countermeasure usage

Please step up to the countermeasure challenge and prove that you can do this. I say you have no idea when someone is properly using countermeasures.


The term "Properly using countermeasures" is the key.  If you have extensive knowledge regarding polygraph. physiology and psychology you may be able to "properly" use countermeasures and not be "detected".  Also practice with an examiner would be helpful.  Polygraph is not 100% accurate, it is about 86% on screening examinations IF the examiner is properly trained and experienced.  The 86% comes from field studies and lab studies.  

It is my personal opinion polygraph should never be used as a stand alone test that disqualifies an applicant.  There should always be other information developed after a failed polygraph to support disqualification.  





BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA- but you keep on believing that propaganda.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #9 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 1:45am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Your command of the English language is impressive.  I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage.  Very logical and impressive.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box depressed
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 8
Joined: Jun 30th, 2010
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #10 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 2:05am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Bill_Brown wrote on Jun 4th, 2011 at 1:45am:
Your command of the English language is impressive.  I am sure that came from the many degrees you obtained in collage.  Very logical and impressive. 




Yes, it is - if that is the best you have, I really feel sorry for you. Your profession is a joke. I have seen people pass polys with flying colors, who later ADMITTED to committing said acts. Explain that one. I have also seen GOOD men, high ranking mil personnel be accused of terrorism by another agency, or during the hiring phase, when the this could be furthest from the truth. 

Just because you believe in your "Never-Never Land" and Peter Pan doesn't mean the rest of us do, nor should we. Your narrow minded NON-LOGIC speaks volumes when you put your full faith and credit into a FALLIBLE machine and then try to ascertain "truth or false" from said machine, with the human error factor. Yep, I have plenty of ocean front property for sale in Arizona if your interested...  

By the way, the educated will always outweigh the lemmings such as you...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box stefano
Ex Member


Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #11 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 5:35am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
depressed wrote on Jun 4th, 2011 at 2:05am:
By the way, the educated will always outweigh the lemmings such as you...

Depressed: back it down a couple notches. there are many others who deserve this kind of treatment, but bill_brown is among the most civil and open minded.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Truth
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 194
Joined: Aug 4th, 2003
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #12 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 7:40pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
And besides, it's college, not collage.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #13 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 8:31pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Mr. Truth, 

Sorry about the spelling error, I will be more attentive.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Bill_Brown
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 227
Joined: Apr 8th, 2011
Re: perm reject if you fail this state police poly
Reply #14 - Jun 4th, 2011 at 9:41pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Depressed, 

I am sorry for your experience.  We have errors in polygraph and it adversely affects the lives of those involved.  Many examiners do advise employers of this fact and encourage the employer to do a complete background and not rely on the polygraph as the final authority.  Not all employers listen.   

There will always be abuses of polygraph, this is true in all professions.  The polygraph community has made tremendous strides by changing many rules and guidelines with the American Polygraph Association and the American Association of Police Polygraphers.  We are continuing to work on research which will aid us in conducting examinations.   

I am sorry for your plight, and wish it were different for you.   

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
perm reject if you fail this state police poly

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Change Text Color
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx ics psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X