Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test (Read 26468 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
Global Moderator
*****
Offline


Make-believe science yields
make-believe security.

Posts: 5925
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Joined: Sep 29th, 2000
DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Feb 24th, 2004 at 6:15am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
A 23-page Department of Defense Polygraph Institute document dated January 2002 outlining procedures for the administration of pre-employment polygraph examinations for law enforcement applicants may be downloaded as a 909kb PDF file here:

http://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-lepet.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the introduction:

Quote:
The LEPET [Law Enforcement Pre-employment Test] is currenty used in different forms by federal law enforcement agencies during the pre-employment process. This Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (PDD) test is used in screening applicants for federal law enforcement positions requiring United States security clearances. The LEPET taught by DoDPI is a two phase examination; the first phase addresses security and counter-intelligence issues. The second phase addresses suitability issues for employment as a federal law enforcement officer. This procedure is based on the version of LEPET administered by the U.S. Secret Service, but is consistent in structure to the procedures used by all federal law enforcement agencies.
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2004 at 6:57am by George W. Maschke »  

George W. Maschke
Tel/SMS: 1-202-810-2105 (Please use Signal Private Messenger or WhatsApp to text or call.)
E-mail/iMessage/FaceTime: antipolygraph.org@protonmail.com
Wire: @ap_org
PGP Public Key: 316A947C
PGP Public Key (offline): 2BF4374B
Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
Back to top
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Drew Richardson
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 427
Joined: Sep 7th, 2001
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #1 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 2:28pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Congratulations, George, on this find!

Quote:
A 23-page Department of Defense Polygraph Institute document dated January 2002 outlining procedures for the administration of pre-employment polygraph examinations for law enforcement applicants may be downloaded as a 909kb PDF file here:

http://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-lepet.pdf

Here is an excerpt from the introduction:

The LEPET [Law Enforcement Pre-employment Test] is currenty used in different forms by federal law enforcement agencies during the pre-employment process. This Psychophysiological Detection of Deception (PDD) test is used in screening applicants for federal law enforcement positions requiring United States security clearances. The LEPET taught by DoDPI is a two phase examination; the first phase addresses security and counter-intelligence issues. The second phase addresses suitability issues for employment as a federal law enforcement officer. This procedure is based on the version of LEPET administered by the U.S. Secret Service, but is consistent in structure to the procedures used by all federal law enforcement agencies.




This is one  of the more important (if not the most significant) documents to have been posted on this site in its history.  This is must reading for everyone who would know what has been taught in the federal polygraph community for at least the last fifteen years (the period that I have had some association and familiarity with it) regarding polygraph screening .  This is a roadmap for those who conduct polygraph screening utilizing probable lie control question test (PLCQT) polygraph formats.  Amongst other things this tells me that virtually nothing changed during the decade that passed between my training and the dated (January 2002) release of this document (silly me to have remotely thought otherwise, I suppose).  This is more or less THE SCRIPT for what you will see and what you will hear.  You will see the order, even the very language and characterizations of the foolishness that we have come to know as polygraph screening.  This document is sufficiently important that it requires your careful attention and then your careful attention again.  I hope to spend time, as time permits, reviewing and commenting on its contents.  I would hope that those in the polygraph community who support such testing will join in the discussion.  Regards,

Drew Richardson
« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2004 at 2:51pm by Drew Richardson »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fair Chance
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 551
Joined: Oct 10th, 2002
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 7:02pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
George, Drew,

This is a bombshell.  The FBI continues to have complete faith in the polygraph and is intending to randomly try to polygraph existing employees (what percentage per year is still up in limbo).  Since I assume that there are not specific incidents involved, they will have to use a pre-screening format which all examiners are familiar with.  Imagine the irritation to an examinee after a fellow employee (polygraph examiner) blatantly lies about the questions only to read this release later (or worse, before).

This again is detrimental to moral and thus hurting this country's leading agency against another terrorist attack.   It serves as yet another distraction to the task at hand.

I wonder how many will take a photocopy into the exam room with them and how the examiner would handle such a fiasco?

Regards
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Drew Richardson
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 427
Joined: Sep 7th, 2001
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2004 at 8:29pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Fair Chance,

You are absolutely correct in your assessment of the significance of this document.  I agree with you that every Bureau examiner (and every other polygraph examiner conducting polygraph screening exams) should be confronted with the contents of this document.  I hope that you will make it known to all Bureau employees through the various internal communication channels and employee representative groups available to an insider.  Best wishes and good luck in any effort you might make in this regard...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Anonymous
Guest


Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2004 at 2:34pm
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
For those of you who like to read the last chapter of a book first, you can skip to appendices E (security and counterintelligence questions) and F (suitability questions).  Although the document mentions a rather simple minded color coding scheme for polygraph operators (relevant questions are marked “red” and comparison questions are marked “green”—sounds like the same intellectual giants at Homeland Security who gave us “orange” and “yellow”), DoDPI has even gone one step further for the color blind and intellectually challenged—they have even labeled the questions (by type) for us in these two appendices. It would appear from George’s book, that all one needs do is to practice and produce reactions to those questions labeled “comparison” on the two lists (#s 3, 5, 8, 10, and 12 on the first list (appendix E) and #s 3, 5, 8, and 10 on the second list (appendix F)).  Note that they have gone one step further and provided us with the appropriate acceptable “yes” and “no” answers to these questions (gee..maybe they are swell guys and gals after all….NOT!).  Although these questions and their order will no doubt be changed, you can at least get some practice recognizing what a comparison question is and producing a reaction to it by using these lists.  Also look at appendix D for a list of comparison questions that might be substituted for the ones in these two lists. Oh, and also, if you read the whole document and see how many times you will have been lied to by the time you get to these lists in your “test” you will have the motivation to practice well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Amazed
Guest


Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #5 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 12:01am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Checking in after a year.....Once again I am amazed, George, that you still try to take a good exam and turn its purpose and results into something evil.

Your website should read  Anti-Honest. Org....for you only want to help the criminals get away with even more than they already do.   Your website is based on your own sad story, George, so get a life and let everyone else get the truth.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box suethem
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 29th, 2003
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #6 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 5:02am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Amazed,

Thanks to George we know the 'truth' about the polygraph!!

Did you read the National Academy of Sciences study?

Did you read the testimony of former FBI Lab supervisor Dr Drew Richardson?

Did you read the DODPI document?

And you still think that the polygraph is valid?????

Trembling Woods is now taking 'guests' , I'll call and book you a room.
« Last Edit: Mar 5th, 2004 at 7:58am by suethem »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Guest
Guest


Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #7 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 5:32am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
That is so much bullshit.  All George has done is cry to the world about how badly he was treated.  And it is a good bet that he really is a liar and deserved exactly what he got.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box gijoeyl33
New User
*
Offline



Posts: 8
Joined: Feb 26th, 2004
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #8 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 7:17am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
how about me? i failed and was honest, did i get what i deserved mr. guest man.  No one intends for criminals to pass, only for the innocent to not fail
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box suethem
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 29th, 2003
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #9 - Mar 5th, 2004 at 8:14am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Guest,

That's a great come back.  I take it that you did not bother to read any of the sources, which all confirm the same point-  that the polygraph is a mess.

No sympathy for the victims of false positives-  you must being in the poly business.

If we sent our soldiers out to fight with defective equipment would you not be pissed?

Same thing here

We are arming our LE/Intell folks with a defective product, sold by uncaring conmen who see national security as market place for their crap....

I think George has shown his courage and great determination by exposing polygraphy regardless of the obvious consequences to his career.

I wish that a polygrapher would show that kind of moxy and take Dr. Drew's challenge, but when your dealing with jellyfish.....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box guest
Guest


Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 2:50am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
suethem wrote on Mar 5th, 2004 at 8:14am:
Guest,

I wish that a polygrapher would show that kind of moxy and take Dr. Drew's challenge, but when your dealing with jellyfish.....  


Hey Sue, why don't you wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets full first.  No one is going to take up Drew's phoney "challenge".  Besides Drew is too busy inventing a new "lie detector".  Which probably explains why he is trying to discredit the old one.  That way he can sell everyone his new miracle machine.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box suethem
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 29th, 2003
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 3:49am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Guest,

what a lovely post.

I think that it was the FBI director who asked Dr. Drew go to polygraph school, and conduct a study of the polygraph in general.

If the director  of the FBI did not want his little gizmo doubted, then he should not have asked to have it studied.

The fact that the National Academy of sciences came to the same conclusion as Dr. Drew about the faulty nature of the polygraph is quite telling....

And so is your anger.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Kona
Very Senior User
****
Offline



Posts: 159
Joined: Sep 23rd, 2003
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 4:12am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
And it is a good bet that he really is a liar and deserved exactly what he got. 


What is your source for this little pearl of knowledge?
Why is it a good bet that he is a liar?  Because he has the audacity to question the validity of the almighty polygraph? 

Based on George's past service to our country in the intel field for nearly 20 years (The Army, The FBI, and The LAPD), I truly believe that he is an honorable man, and a victim of a false positive on his polygraph examination.  To what part of George's "shady" past do you base your opinion?    

Quote:
Hey Sue, why don't you wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one gets full first.


That was a very well thought out, provocative response.  What's next, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Quote:
No one is going to take up Drew's phoney "challenge".


You've got that right.  No polygraph examiner would risk looking like an incompetent, clueless fool in front of the whole world.  The only thing phoney in Dr. Richardson's challenge would be a polygraph examiner attempting to pass off his skill as "science."

Quote:
Besides Drew is too busy inventing a new "lie detector".  Which probably explains why he is trying to discredit the old one.  That way he can sell everyone his new miracle machine.


Source please.  You sure like to sling mud at people without any credible source to back up what's flowing out of your piehole.  Why don't you try posting some proof with all your vile accusations?  Oh, that's right, you can't because it's all the rantings of a pathetic,  angry little man whose profession is based on deceit. 

You have a real nice day.

Kona
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box guest
Guest


Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #13 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 4:31am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Kona wrote on Mar 7th, 2004 at 4:12am:
Source please.  You sure like to sling mud at people without any credible source to back up what's flowing out of your piehole.  Why don't you try posting some proof with all your vile accusations?  Kona


You people are too stupid for words, but here is your "source".  http://www.brainwavescience.com/DrewBio.php
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Marty
Especially Senior User
*****
Offline



Posts: 499
Joined: Sep 27th, 2002
Re: DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test
Reply #14 - Mar 7th, 2004 at 5:37am
Mark & QuoteQuote Print Post  
Quote:
You people are too stupid for words, but here is your "source".  http://www.brainwavescience.com/DrewBio.php

The device Drew is associated with does not detect lies, truth or even "deception."  According to its inventor it was designed to detect the presence or absence of specific knowledge. While not very useful for screening it might even be useful for detecting knowledge about CM's - an intriguing thought. However, it can't tell whether a person with that knowledge decided to use it.

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
ReplyAdd Poll Send TopicPrint
DoDPI Law Enforcement Pre-Employment Test

Please type the characters that appear in the image. The characters must be typed in the same order, and they are case-sensitive.
Open Preview Preview

You can resize the textbox by dragging the right or bottom border.
Insert Hyperlink Insert FTP Link Insert Image Insert E-mail Insert Media Insert Table Insert Table Row Insert Table Column Insert Horizontal Rule Insert Teletype Insert Code Insert Quote Edited Superscript Subscript Insert List /me - my name Insert Marquee Insert Timestamp No Parse
Bold Italicized Underline Insert Strikethrough Highlight
                       
Insert Preformatted Text Left Align Centered Right Align
resize_wb
resize_hb







Max 200000 characters. Remaining characters:
Text size: pt
More Smilies
View All Smilies
Collapse additional features Collapse/Expand additional features Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin Angry Sad Shocked Cool Huh Roll Eyes Tongue Embarrassed Lips Sealed Undecided Kiss Cry
Attachments More Attachments Allowed file types: txt doc docx psd pdf bmp jpe jpg jpeg gif png swf zip rar tar gz 7z odt ods mp3 mp4 wav avi mov 3gp html maff pgp gpg
Maximum Attachment size: 500000 KB
Attachment 1:
X