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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience? (Read 110720 times)
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #60 - Jun 14th, 2003 at 9:59pm
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I really don't want to get into defending or prosecuting Gelb...I am just wondering....Let's say that the Lasalle that awarded his degree IS bogus.  What is there to say that he did not actually believe his degree was genuine when he received it.  I know that sounds like a stretch and you are probably right that he SHOULD have known...but I guess I would feel just as strongly saying that he gets the degree (I really don't know how much work would have been involved in his particular program) and THEN finds out that Lasalle is bogus....does he have any obligation to go out publicly and denounce his degree?  I would like to hear from both sides of this argument.   Please note AGAIN, I am not either defending or prosecuting him....just wondering and putting this out for discussion.  I was talking this over with a friend the other day and we both agreed that if one of us went out and "bought" something and paid a lot of money for it and then it turned out to be a lemon, who we "proudly" announce to the world that we were stupid enough to pay good money for something worthless....and would we have any LEGAL obligation to announce this.  Oh,...and just for the record, I am NOT Gelb!
  
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Reply #61 - Jun 14th, 2003 at 11:10pm
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Guest,

The answer is quite clear with regard to the hypothetical situation you pose.  Assuming Mr. Gelb gave what amounted to false testimony under oath regarding his academic background (not realizing this testimony was false and therefore perjurous--as you indicate a scenario requiring considerable imagination when it involves a program that would normally involve several years of participation and knowledge thereof ), he would have an obligation to correct any mistakes in that testimony immediately upon realizing the error.
  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #62 - Jun 14th, 2003 at 11:41pm
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guest,

Gelb is a fraud and a felon plain and simple.

It's not much of a stretch to lie about obtaining an advanced degree when you lie for a living.

Tell thousands of lies, what's one more.

As for the 'buying' a degree and thinking its legit-  PLEASE!!  Don't allow yourself to be deceived.   

Some people are willing to do anything for money! That includes people in (or near) LE.   

Gelb is probably not the only one either!!




  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #63 - Jun 15th, 2003 at 1:16am
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Gelb's an idiot.  To say he represents the polygraph community is to say OJ represents fine cutlery.
  
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Gelb'sRe: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #64 - Jun 15th, 2003 at 1:32am
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Saidme,

An interesting perspective you share with us:

Quote:
...Gelb's an idiot.  To say he represents the polygraph community is to say OJ represents fine cutlery....


I do not know whether he is an idiot, but it is reasonaby certain that Mr.Gelb is not only a polygrapher but one who has been celebrated, awarded, and elected to leadership postitions within his and presumably your community.  As such he may well more widely represent polygraphy to the lay public and even the polygraph community than do you.  Your comparison to O.J. Simpson and cutlery is not only inappropriate but wrong.  I think, unless you are prepared to state that the various past and present (elected) presidents of polygraph associations do not represent polygraphy, your thinking is misplaced.  Are you a member of the American Polygraph Association?  If so, instead of an anonymous and cowardly attack such as you have made here, why don't you openly initiate an ethics complaint leading to an investigation of matters of concern...
  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #65 - Jun 15th, 2003 at 3:42am
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Guest,
Offering graduate degrees that are based on "life experience" and the balance in your checkbook are pure fraud. Anybody who believed that they were getting a genuine degree would have to be very naive.
Anonymous,
Great response to Saidme.
  

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #66 - Jun 16th, 2003 at 12:22am
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Orolan, I just don't know.  Just out of curiosity, I surfed the web using Google and the words "life experience PhD".  I was surprised at the number of institutions appearing under that heading, some of which, I had to admit had very impressive sounding and appearing web sites.  Now granted,  that might very well be an advertising ploy, but that kind of advertising costs money.  There are even references of accreditations (albeit in at least one, the degree granting institution makes it clear that their accreditation is not recognized by the Department of Education; and another through the country of Liberia - you know the country which many cruise lines register the ships through to avoid the regulatory controls imposed by the United States.  The point of all this, is that these institutions are out there providing a service.  If there was not significant demand for it, then they would fade away.  They most likely walk a very thin line, but I am not sure you can defend the use of the word "naive".  Ifg that were the case, there are an awful lot of "naive" people out there.  The attack on Gelb, at least on the surface, does not appear to be because of what he did (apparently a lot of people do it), but who he is.  Wouldn't it be more in keeping with the intent of this web site to do something to undermine these degree granting institutions rather than attacking the man? I would bet that there are a lot of people out there who attended "legitamate" institutions and took courses out of their planned curricula just for the purpose of fulfilling grtaduation requirements....not exactly the same, but nonetheless, equally devious.  I doubt anyone would defend him actions...what he did, he probably brought a lot of unwanted attention to himself, but then again, haven't a lot of people done this to themselves?  It just gives you pause to think.
  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #67 - Jun 16th, 2003 at 2:00am
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Orolan, I just don't know.  Just out of curiosity, I surfed the web using Google and the words "life experience PhD".  I was surprised at the number of institutions appearing under that heading, some of which, I had to admit had very impressive sounding and appearing web sites.  Now granted,  that might very well be an advertising ploy, but that kind of advertising costs money.  There are even references of accreditations (albeit in at least one, the degree granting institution makes it clear that their accreditation is not recognized by the Department of Education; and another through the country of Liberia - you know the country which many cruise lines register the ships through to avoid the regulatory controls imposed by the United States.  The point of all this, is that these institutions are out there providing a service.  If there was not significant demand for it, then they would fade away.  They most likely walk a very thin line, but I am not sure you can defend the use of the word "naive".  Ifg that were the case, there are an awful lot of "naive" people out there.  The attack on Gelb, at least on the surface, does not appear to be because of what he did (apparently a lot of people do it), but who he is.  Wouldn't it be more in keeping with the intent of this web site to do something to undermine these degree granting institutions rather than attacking the man? I would bet that there are a lot of people out there who attended "legitamate" institutions and took courses out of their planned curricula just for the purpose of fulfilling grtaduation requirements....not exactly the same, but nonetheless, equally devious.  I doubt anyone would defend him actions...what he did, he probably brought a lot of unwanted attention to himself, but then again, haven't a lot of people done this to themselves?  It just gives you pause to think.


Lets get something perfectly clear here: No one is 'attacking' Ed Gelb. Ed Gelb made a choice: He chose to purchase a fake doctoral degree from the premiere diploma mill, 'LaSalle University'. No, this is not the actual, accredited universityin Philadelphia, PA, this is the LaSalle University that was run by serial felon James Kirk:

In addition to dabbling in film production, 3-D film distribution, and a video dating service, in the late 70s he got involved with a correspondence law school called the University of San Gabriel Valley (it no longer exists; the California Supreme Court suspended one of Kirk's lawyer-partners for three years and placed the other on probation for a year). But Kirk saw the cash potential and opened his own Southland University down the street. When Southland could no longer meet California's minimal operating requirements, he moved it. It ended up in Missouri, where he changed its name to LaSalle University and his own to Thomas McPherson. Leaving Missouri a few steps ahead of the sheriff, he found a haven in Louisiana's unregulated world of higher education. He ran ads in dozens of airline and business magazines. He took a vow of poverty, so his World Christian Church owned the university, his Porsche, and his million-dollar home. And when the federal authorities finally came for him, they discovered bank deposits in excess of $35 million, current cash deposits of $10 million, and numerous other assets. Kirk/McPherson was indicted on 18 counts of mail fraud, wire (telephone) fraud, and tax fraud, among others. Following a plea bargain, he was sentenced to five years in federal prison.

Ed Gelb knowingly commited serial perjury as well as misrepresented himself innumerable times in the press, on television, and he continues to do so on his website.

If demanding that a person who claims to be a PhD actually EARNED his doctorate rather than simply paying James Kirk several thousand dollars for one is 'attacking', then you and I have very different opinion over what 'attacking' means.




  

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #68 - Jun 16th, 2003 at 2:12am
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Guest,
I know of several. But most of them offer "assessed life experience credit". In other words, if you want to gain credit for a foreign language on the basis that you lived in Mexico for 6 years, then write a 15,000 word term paper. In Spanish. And if it's good enough, you get the credit-hours. Thus you avoid the need to sit in a classroom for 4 semesters. Colleges and universities throughout the country do this in many subjects, using what is called a "CLEP" test.
There are many college-level courses that one could possibly opt out of due to experience. Can you imagine Alan Greenspan, Chairman of the Federal Reserve, sitting through Econ 1010? No. But you could make him take the final exam for Econ 2020 if he wanted the credit-hours.
When handled in this way, "life experience" credit would be perfectly valid in my opinion. But there is no "life experience" that can replace the time and research needed to complete a thesis worthy of bestowing a Ph.D. And as far as I'm concerned, anybody who got a Ph.D. without having to write a thesis does a great disservice to those who got theirs the "real" way.
The fact that their are a lot of people "buying" a Ph.D. doesn't make it right. And maybe "naive" is the wrong word to use to describe them. How about "lazy", "immoral" or "crooked"? 
Quote:
Wouldn't it be more in keeping with the intent of this web site to do something to undermine these degree granting institutions rather than attacking the man?

The intent of this site is not to bring down the "diploma mills". It is to bring down the polygraph. And Mr. Gelb, as a very vocal and visible member of the polygraph community, has put himself right in the line of fire.
  

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #69 - Jun 16th, 2003 at 4:54pm
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I've summarized some of the key information brought to light in this message thread in an article titled, "Polygraph Operator 'Dr.' Edward I. Gelb Exposed as a Phony Ph.D."

The copy of Gelb's resume that Mark obtained may now be downloaded as a PDF file here:

http://antipolygraph.org/articles/gelb-resume-2002.pdf
« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2003 at 5:29pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #70 - Jun 20th, 2003 at 12:55am
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I would just add that courts do not look kindly upon expert witnesses who falsify their credentials.  Several years ago, Johnny St. Valentine Brown Jr., a former police officer and drug expert for the US Attorneys office in Washington DC , was discovered to have falsified his pharmacology degee in testimony he gave in various civil and riminal cases for over 20 years.  Amazingly, no one had ever checked his credentials because he was so well known.  Finally an inexperienced attorney trying his first drug related case did a background check.  Brown pled guilty to 8 counts of perjury and spent several years in prison.  The US Attorney's office spent years dealing with appeals in every case that Brown had testified in.

Where has Gelb given expert testimony or filed an affidavit or declaration under oath.? The lawyers of the individuals against who he testified would be most interested in your findings.
  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #71 - Jun 20th, 2003 at 2:48am
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Let's not forget Al Gore who claimed to have invented the internet! Smiley
  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #72 - Jun 20th, 2003 at 3:57pm
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Saidme wrote on Jun 20th, 2003 at 2:48am:
Let's not forget Al Gore who claimed to have invented the internet! Smiley


I'd rather we not forget past American Polygraph Association President Ed Gelb willingly perjured himself repeatedly in courts of law by claiming an education he doesn't have.
  

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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #73 - Jun 20th, 2003 at 11:28pm
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George, skeptic, beech trees......

After reading Gelb's resume I think that simply exposing him here is not enough.

I think that the: 
                                      Los Angeles Superior Court
                         Los Angles Police Commission
                         Federal Public Defender Office
                         LA County DA Office
                         FBI
                         American College of Foresic Examiners

    might want to know that he faked his credentials.

What do you think about a letter writing campaign?

I contacted a writer who has shown interest in the polygraph topic and specifically in hanging Gelb out to dry.  He is finishing another article now, but promises that he will get to it soon.  

I would be interested in hearing your opinions, ideas or suggestions.



                     
« Last Edit: Jun 21st, 2003 at 2:37am by suethem »  
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Re: Intercept/Ed Gelb in LA--any experience?
Reply #74 - Jun 21st, 2003 at 4:55am
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Let's hope that the profession of polygraphy has ethics enough to police one of their own.


suethem wrote on Jun 20th, 2003 at 11:28pm:
George, skeptic, beech trees......

After reading Gelb's resume I think that simply exposing him here is not enough.

I think that the: 
                                      Los Angeles Superior Court
                         Los Angles Police Commission
                         Federal Public Defender Office
                         LA County DA Office
                         FBI
                         American College of Foresic Examiners

    might want to know that he faked his credentials.

What do you think about a letter writing campaign?

I contacted a writer who has shown interest in the polygraph topic and specifically in hanging Gelb out to dry.  He is finishing another article now, but promises that he will get to it soon.  

I would be interested in hearing your opinions, ideas or suggestions.



                     

  

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