What an interesting post.  A CONVICTED RAPIST who used "The Lie Behind the Lie Detector" to cheat his way through a polygraph required as a condition of his probation.  

On top of that he is a pre-med student?  Society is suppose to trust this guy with their health and lives?  That is scary to say the least.  

Well gentlmen, this is a great example of the fruits of your labor....  

(This is venting)

First of all, lets clear up some of the seeming misperceptions of my situation.  I do not need to defend myself to anyone, and I felt that the specifics of my case bore no meaning to the topic at hand, however, let me clear something up.  As I said earlier, I take full responsibility in the actions I took, but the state saw fit to not only place me on probation for statutory rape CHARGES, but they placed her on probation as well for criminal mischief.  I am not a convicted rapist, nor am I a convicted felon on any charges.  Secondly, I did not employ countermeasures to cover deceitfulness, rather I employed them to augment the truthful responses I knew I was giving.  This forum is in place to express your opinions on the virtues (or lack thereof) and/or value of the polygraph exam; not to sit on a moral high horse and pass judgment.  I have spent enough bandwidth responding to the post (L72cueak) and will digress.   

(The actual message)

Once again I would like to reiterate the resounding message of this site; the use of a polygraph does not ensure that a person telling a lie will be caught, and rather than the polygraphist complaining about it, they should look into finding a method that is not so reliant on deception itself.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you have posted beach trees.  According to the laws of the state that I live in, I am a sex offender.  Does this mean that I am going to have sex with a minor ever again.  You can bet the farm that I am not.  Unfortunantly, all you have to go on is my word.  I would love nothing more than for someone to implement a "true" lie detecting system that is not based on vodoo science, however, to my knowledge there is not one.  

Responding to what you said in your second paragraph in reference to the fine line we tread between post conviction and the polygraph, I have this to say.

I am in the unique position of being classified as a sex offender and get to see other sex offenders up close and personal.  And you know what?  It's scary.  The fact that some of these guys are being allowed to walk the streets is scary.  Do not think that I feel that I am better than these people.  A sex offense is a sex offense any way you slice it.  I would also like to take this time to state that just because a person is designated as a sex offender does not mean that he/she is a danger to all children.  However, in the same category we have those who suffer from pedephillia and other serious mental conditions that allow them to repeatedly harm the youth.  The fact that we are using the polygraph to ensure that these people do not reoffend frightens me to no end.  Like I stated before, I get to see it from the inside and it's not pretty.  Some of the things that I have heard would sicken you and bring you to tears.  I will play the devils advocate for a moment and state that the majority of people who commit such crimes are not of the upper echolone of society, nor do many of them rank high in IQ testing.   With that said, many believe that they will be caught by the polygraph and make confessions based on that fear.  This leaves me with a bitter-sweet feeling towards the test.  

On the one hand I am thankful that these people will no longer be able to offend, but on the flip side, where in the constitution does it state that the system may pray on an individuals ignorance to incriminate them?  

Not to mention those of a different calibur all together which are devious, deliberate, and of higher intelligence that may very well employ countermeasures to "beat" the test.  

When looked upon from both sides, the polygraph is a tool that at best can only fool people into making and admission.  It can not and should not be relied upon to produce any "factual concrete evidence" to the perponderance of any situation, criminal or employment based.  It is, in my belief, a money making tool (at least in the case of the judicial circut in which i reside) that should have as much bearing on deception as a psychic reading tarrot cards.

So where does that leave us?  We come to this forum and discuss the problems of the polygraph, but what is to be done about it.  Any insight into actual actions being taken (other than the challenges put forth on this web site) would be greatly appreciated.

(sorry long winded just have a lot of thoughts on the subject!)

I hardly think a 19 year old having consensual sex with a 15 makes one a rapist. A mistake yes, rape no. Many 15 year old girls are more mature than 19 year old boys.

Practicing a quack profession based on psuedo science such as polygraphy or--just a bad--drug testing puts one much lower in the slime pool.

anontx,
I'm not here to argue PSOT, just to add a bite of common sense to this thread.  You said,
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I believe 18 in the eyes of the law makes you legal.  I think the 15 y/o's parents might agree with me on that.  What if it were your daughter or what if she were 14, 13?  Where is the line to be drawn?    

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Probably because polygraphs results are wildly inaccurate. As a part of your professional research, didn't you read the NAS report?

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Ah yes but he didn't did he? That's because the types of countermeasures described in The Lie Behind The Lie Detector are undetectable when properly applied.

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I just outlined the reason above, but I would be very interested in any other reasons you might care to share why a polygrapher would not detect countermeasures. For god's sake, please don't insult us all with the 'uncalibrated machine' excuse.

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Tell you what-- you stick with your delusional gratuitous assertions and we here at antipolygraph.org will stick to the facts. You JUST finished saying that there are any number of reasons why countermeasures would not be detected, and now you spew the propoganda that 'the test works'. The 'test' works insofar as naive, gullible, or simply moronic subjects believe that another human being can actually read minds... i.e., they are duped into confessing.

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Apparently it matters quite a bit Guest! 

For the purposes of illustration of my point, let's presume for a moment that Verbatim is reoffending. Verbatim would then simply be relying on the polygraph community's lies, taking advantage of your lies, and remaining free. It's the PO's reliance on your particular line of B.S. that's keeping Verbatim out of jail, free to molest our sons and daughters. YOUR fault polygrapher.

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Please, if you can, point to any case in the United States in which a probationer/parolee was accused of countermeasures and subsequently, based on that accusation alone, sent back to (or just to) jail. Can you, or is this another scare tactic from the polygraphers here?

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Turn the mirror around and look into it, Guest. YOU'RE to blame here, insofar as you have sold a worthless bill of goods up the chain of command. Polygraphers cannot discern truth from deception based on the charts alone, they cannot detect properly-executed countermeasures, and any attempts to bluff and bluster otherwise will be met with a multitude of posts just like mine pointing out those sad facts!

Torpedo wrote on Feb 28^th, 2003 at 4:12am:


Mr. Butt-cheek-checker,

If you think that's 'going off', you either work with 6th grade girls or haven't read many of my posts (please note: some are lengthy and contain pollysyllabic words).

I have a 2 year old son who is the light of my life. NO idea where you're going with that one, but logic was never and never shall be your forte...

The Blame Issue...... yes i suppose that's what we'll have to call it from now on. And, it wasn't an attempt. The fault clearly and irrevocably lies at your feet.

THANK YOU for the ad hominem attack, and have a nice day