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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge (Read 235844 times)
George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #30 - Jul 2nd, 2002 at 5:51pm
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At Dr. Richardson's recent requst, we've changed his description on the AntiPolygraph.org home page from "top FBI polygraph expert, Laboratory Division" to "former Supervisor Special Agent, FBI Laboratory Division." Dr. Richardson sent me the following note:

Quote:
Dear George,

Although I appreciate your kind personal characterization of me as a top polygraph expert, I would ask you to change that characterization on the home page of the antipolygraph.org website to Former Special Agent, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Laboratory Division.  Although I completely understand that your characterization is meant to be simply your personal assessment (and although I do appreciate such from one as intelligent, reasoned, and articulate as you), I am asking for the aforementioned change for the following two reasons:

(1) In theory, a naive reader might misconstrue your personal characterization as an official title or status in the FBI which does not/did not exist for me or anybody else, and

(2) I would like to remove this as a possible source of distraction from the very badly needed discussion of substantive polygraph issues that you and others deeply care about.  Thank you for your assistance in handling this matter and best wishes for a pleasant 4th of July and in your continuing efforts,

Drew Richardson


Perhaps "the boys" or "ARIZONA" might now see fit to step forward from behind the veil of anonymity and accept Dr. Richardson's challenge?
  

George W. Maschke
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #31 - Aug 17th, 2002 at 1:11pm
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200+ days and still no takers!

What are the polygraph "professionals" afraid of?

Kiss
  

George W. Maschke
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #32 - Sep 20th, 2002 at 3:02pm
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On 18 September 2002 (AntiPolygraph.org's 2nd anniversary), Dr. Richardson recorded a personal message regarding his polygraph countermeasure challenge. It may be listened to as a WAV file here:

http://antipolygraph.org/audio/polygraph-challenge.wav
  

George W. Maschke
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Carrie is innocent
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #33 - Nov 21st, 2002 at 8:24pm
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I am innocent and paid 350.00 to prove my innocence. †I thought the polygraph was a legitimate source and soon found out how inaccurate it really is.

It had shown that I was being deceitful by 99%. †

What a joke the test is and what a waste of money. †

Please, if you are innocent do not take this test.

  
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Batman (Guest)
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #34 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 12:01am
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Carrie,

What were you accused of? 

What were you asked (specific questions) during your polygraph examination?

Batman
  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #35 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 4:54am
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you george...we are sooooooooooooooooo scared of you
  
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Skeptic
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #36 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 8:10am
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Even though pro-polygraph visitors seem to have given up on rational debate since the publication of the NAS report, IMHO the effort they are putting in to libelling George, and the fury with which they do it speaks volumes.

These are not honest people, and they do not have our best interests at heart.

Skeptic
  
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George W. Maschke
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #37 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 10:03am
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Quote:
you george...we are sooooooooooooooooo scared of you


As we approach the 300th day of Dr. Richardson's countermeasure challenge, it is abundantly clear that our friends in the polygraph community are indeed running scared.
  

George W. Maschke
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Personal Statement: "Too Hot of a Potato"
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #38 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 11:02am
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George and Skeptic,

How does turning the deaf ear to a hollow challenge signify that the "polygraph community is running scared"?  How does it signify that examiners are all "dishonest" and "do not have our best interests at heart"?  And to whom does "our" refer -- the general public or the proponents of this site?!

Again, your monolithic view of the "polygraph community" displays blatent ignorance, regardless of the attempts at intellectual elitism by many of the anti-poly community.  Stereotyping as such detracts from any credibility this thread ever had.  Polygraph is used by countless organizations and countless INDIVIDUALS.  The post by Gino stating that since the APA has 2,200 members, then that is the only number of downloads of TLBTLD that were by examiners, clearly shows you have no idea (I'll make a short post there).  And while there are bad apples in every bunch, most of the examiners I work with, I would trust with my wife or my life (of course since they are fellow LE agents I likely have trusted them with the latter at some time).

Ever think that the challenge is being answered, not on this site, not on some stage, or in a lab selected by Drew; but out there in the field of investigations--in the real world--where we face such challenges everyday.  I continue to serve justice effectively, even with your site here. Keep on sending them in, and I'll answer the challenge!!

By the way...what have you done with Drew.  I haven't posted lately because the threads have been filled with pointless, often ad hominem, banter -- from both sides.  Perhaps he could re-start the intellectual exchange here.  Otherwise, to get a bit of a mental workout, I'll have to continue to purchase books and enroll in graduate classes -- and they are much more expensive than this. Smiley

Regards

  
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Drew Richardson
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #39 - Nov 22nd, 2002 at 3:55pm
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Public Servant,

You write:

Quote:
...By the way...what have you done with Drew.  I haven't posted lately because the threads have been filled with pointless, often ad hominem, banter -- from both sides.  Perhaps he could re-start the intellectual exchange here...


Although it's nice to be missed, I suppose I should point out that few people "do" much with me.  I'm sure several present and former bureaucrats tasked with managing me would swear to that Smiley  My absence from the message board is largely a reflection of two things:

(1)  The NAS panel polygraph study and report is largely an exhaustive and comprehensive affirmation of much of what I have said for the last decade or so.  My opening statement made before the Senate several years ago would not be a bad executive summary for the 300 plus page NAS written report.  Aside from the continuing saga of the victimization of polygraph screening examinees and a historical perspective of the debate, there is not much I feel I can add to the story as already told.  Even the victimization story is perhaps bettered through the telling by the victims themselves.  Although I continue to follow the important work and goals of this site and its message board and do intend to follow up with commentary on same concerning a few issues raised by the NAS panel, I hope to spend available time with more comprehensive and substantive writing.  I am now discussing the parameters of one such work with a possible coauthor and an interested commercial publisher.  Iím further looking forward to several planned speaking engagements which I hope will serve in some small way to affect public policy leading to changes regarding polygraph screening both needed and justified following the release of the NAS report.

(2)  I and my colleagues at Brain Fingerprinting Laboratories, Inc. have been quite busy with casework, continued R&D, media relations, general business development and all the many other things which are part and parcel of a new technology company.  We are quite excited about various opportunities we see to assist in both very interesting individual cases as well as to participate in longer and more involved contracted work.  Although largely occupied with the aforementioned activities, I do look forward to continued discussion with you on matters of mutual interest.  Best Regards,

Drew Richardson
« Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2002 at 8:36pm by Drew Richardson »  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #40 - Nov 24th, 2002 at 11:28am
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Drew,

Good to hear from you.  I don't have much time to post now but I also look forward to new discussions. 

Keep us posted on the Brain Fingerprinting research and leave us links for new info.  I'm interested in whether there are new techniques being developed (test type, not monitoring methods) or still working on validation of the techniques described in the link you provided a few months ago.  Feel free to post that and other links for those who may not have seen the others.

Regards

  
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Marty
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #41 - Nov 24th, 2002 at 8:54pm
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I think it is obvious why Drew's challenge is unanswered. The two possible outcomes of interest are assymetrical in impact. Since the polygraph is widely believed by the general public to be accurate and difficult to beat, the only outcome that would be widely reported would be if Drew showed countermeasures to be effective. The expected is not news.

Another factor is that the polygraph depends on the emotional response to material (guilt inducing) deception making Drew's challenge difficult. This is also what makes validating the polygraph essentially impossible.

This problem will likely become larger. There is often little difference between a naive, innocent person's response to the fear of being, incorrectly, thought a thief vs. a guilty person correctly discovered to be one. As the public becomes more aware of the deficiencies of the polygraph the former's response will likely increase and the latter's decrease for obvious psychological reasons.

-Marty
  

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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #42 - Nov 30th, 2002 at 3:20am
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I don't think you will get any takers but not for the reasons you think.
Polygraph examiners could care less about this offer. The people I give exams to are not PHD's  or PHD candidates who have studied the polygraph for years and years and  who have little time for anything else constructive in their lives.

The polygraph community is not interested in any meaningless test in some laboratory controlled setting just to satisfy one or two malcontents.
The fact of the matter is the polygraph works and it works well.  I don't think the polygraph community is really concerned with one or two individuals with a personal vendetta against the polygraph because of personal shortcomings.

This site has enabled me and many of my fellow examiners to attend training and seminars that would have never even been held if it weren't for sites like this.
Thank You and keep up the good work.


  
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #43 - Nov 30th, 2002 at 8:23am
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Polylawman,

Apparently you are as clueless now as before you attended those seminars.  I'd ask for your money back if I were you.  And I suppose it comes as no surprise to you that no one is buying your excuses for cowardice when it comes to accepting the countermeasure challenge.
  
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Marty
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Re: Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge
Reply #44 - Dec 2nd, 2002 at 3:55am
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Quote:
The polygraph community is not interested in any meaningless test in some laboratory controlled setting just to satisfy one or two malcontents.


No doubt many practioners of homeopathy believe the same, lol. The difference is that people can choose of their own accord to use homeopathic techniques.

I found this review quite good, if a bit dated. Not much seems to have changed though. The anecdotal stories at the end are really worth reading. They help clarify why so many believe this works and the environment where it does work somewhat. (naive subjects)

http://skepdic.com/polygrap.html

-Marty
  

Leaf my Philodenrons alone.
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