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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph (Read 98104 times)
Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Psychology
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #15 - Nov 7th, 2002 at 6:19pm
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Ok...so the polygraph is invalid as a "Lie Detector".  The one thing it does is scare most Sex Offenders in to telling the truth.  Before the Polygraph was used, sex offenders in State Treatment programs only admitted to an average of around five to ten crimes that they weren't caught doing.  Now, your average sex offender will admit to previous crimes in the range of 100 to 800 offenses!!!!  I really think you people have your priorities wrong.  The goal here is to PREVENT MORE VICTIMS!  Who cares if we are stepping on the toes of the poor sex offenders rights...we are PREVENTING MORE VICTIMS!  We have certifiable proof, that since the use of the polygraph in sex offender treatment programs that recitivism has dropped.  Sex offenders are not re-offending, at least while they are in treatment, because they are afraid of the polygraph! 
Sex Offense is about lies.  THe sex offender is a habitual lier.  They lie to themselves and others to perpetuate their deviance.  Even if we are using a not-so-scientific tool like the Polygraph to scare them into telling the truth, at least we are getting the end results we want.  For every sex offender that comes on this site and complains about the polygraph, there are dozens more who are happy for the polygraph.  Because instead of resisting change, they actually want to recognize their deviant thinking patterns and they actually want to start living an honest life.  The polygraph has helped them to this end and that is why it is important in sex offender therapy.
As to the polygraphs use in the civilian world.....I don't think it has any place in the courts or in the job market as a lie detector.  But leave it in the sex offender programs!
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fair Chance
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #16 - Nov 8th, 2002 at 6:24am
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Quote:
We have certifiable proof, that since the use of the polygraph in sex offender treatment programs that recitivism has dropped.

Sir,

I am requesting a website link or reference to the above quote.  I am interested in researching this statement.  I doubt that anyone would want to remove a tool which has such certifiable proof in preventing recitivism.

Thankyou.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Mr. Psychology
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #17 - Nov 11th, 2002 at 9:10am
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Hello Fair Chance,
The proof you seek is in the physical world, not on the internet.  If your County uses polygraph testing in its sex offender programs, then you have all the proof you need for research in this area.  Your local probation and parole department, as well as the Therapists they use, can provide you with the list of those sex-offenders who re-offended while on probation before the institution of polygraph testing, and then the list of those sex-offenders who re-offended while on probation after the institution of polygraph testing.
The drop in recitivism is dramatic.  Good luck in your research.
If you find yourself stonewalled for whatever reason by a local county not willing to dig up any paperwork for you, then there are always other counties and other states. 
I happen to have a close relative who works for the county I live in and so the statistics were easy to come by. 
I also know several therapists who practiced pre-polygraph Sex offender therapy and who continued to practice when polygraph testing was instituted.  Interestingly enough, both of these therapists admit that the polygraph is un-scientific.  But it scares the sex offenders into telling the truth and that is what counts! 
Less victims is the goal of sex offender therapy and polygraph testing is helping reach that end!
People like WorriedMom, are only helping create a future victim by enabling their deviant loved-ones in their working against what modern sex-offender therapy has to offer.
I am as against the use of the polygraph in courts and the civilian job market as any of you, but to this end I say let the polygraph do its job.  If it helps prevent one child from being molested, then I say it is worth it to step on the rights of a million sex-offenders.  Does anyone in their right mind differ with that opinion?
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #18 - Nov 11th, 2002 at 9:57am
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Mr. Psychology,

You write:

Quote:
Hello Fair Chance,
The proof you seek is in the physical world, not on the internet.  If your County uses polygraph testing in its sex offender programs, then you have all the proof you need for research in this area.  Your local probation and parole department, as well as the Therapists they use, can provide you with the list of those sex-offenders who re-offended while on probation before the institution of polygraph testing, and then the list of those sex-offenders who re-offended while on probation after the institution of polygraph testing.
The drop in recitivism is dramatic.  Good luck in your research.


The kind of do-it-yourself check you suggest is a poor substitute for a systematic study of the correlation, if any, between polygraphy and recidivism.

Quote:
I also know several therapists who practiced pre-polygraph Sex offender therapy and who continued to practice when polygraph testing was instituted.  Interestingly enough, both of these therapists admit that the polygraph is un-scientific.  But it scares the sex offenders into telling the truth and that is what counts! 
Less victims is the goal of sex offender therapy and polygraph testing is helping reach that end!


While polygraph screening may offer short-term benefits, any long-term benefit depends on the procedure having some genuine validity. The National Academy of Sciences has recently completed an exhaustive study and found polygraph screening to be without validity. As more and more persons in post-conviction polygraph programs learn this, it can be expected that any deterrent value of polygraph screening will only decrease.

On the flip side, reliance on polygraphy may actually serve to help enable recidivist sex offenders, given the ready availability of countermeasure information, the genuine faith in polygraphy exhibited by too many in law enforcement, the inability of polygraphers to reliably detect countermeasures, and their unwillingness to acknowledge this weakness.

Quote:
People like WorriedMom, are only helping create a future victim by enabling their deviant loved-ones in their working against what modern sex-offender therapy has to offer.
I am as against the use of the polygraph in courts and the civilian job market as any of you, but to this end I say let the polygraph do its job.  If it helps prevent one child from being molested, then I say it is worth it to step on the rights of a million sex-offenders.  Does anyone in their right mind differ with that opinion?


I differ with your opinion. Rights are not to be trampled upon, no matter how noble the intention. For example, one of the most egregious civil rights violations stemming from post-conviction polygraph programs is that some on probation or parole end up being sent to jail or denied the right to be with their families, simply because they "failed" a completely invalid polygraph "test." Such punitive actions may be deemed necessary to maintain the official fiction that the polygraph can detect deception, but I think there is simply no excuse for this.
« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2002 at 1:57pm by George W. Maschke »  

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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #19 - Nov 12th, 2002 at 12:57am
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Quote:
I happen to have a close relative who works for the county I live in and so the statistics were easy to come by.  
I also know several therapists who practiced pre-polygraph Sex offender therapy and who continued to practice when polygraph testing was instituted.  Interestingly enough, both of these therapists admit that the polygraph is un-scientific.  But it scares the sex offenders into telling the truth and that is what counts!  
Less victims is the goal of sex offender therapy and polygraph testing is helping reach that end!


Dear Mr. Psychology,

I admire your desire to stop sexual abuse of any kind.  We both understand that it is not about sex.  The abuser is using force to control another individual.  The abuser just uses sex instead of a gun, knife, or other physical device but it is far more harmful to the mental health of the victim.

There will be many offenders who will beat the polygraph because it is unscientific and not predictable in its outcome.  You do not have any qualms concerning possible innocent people accused guilty if it protects the innocents but how do you justify the guilty beating such an unscientific test and perpetuating their  violence?

Just as many do not want spies given a free pass to national security secrets, I do not want serial sex offenders given a "free pass" by passing a test which is not scientifically dependable.

Your definition of "certifiable" and mine do not agree but I do thank you for responding to my request to clarify your views.
  
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #20 - Nov 12th, 2002 at 8:45am
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Dear Fair Chance.
You are only partially rite. Child sex offenders are only concerned with SEX. It has absolutely nothing to do with power.
Getting back to the topic at hand. I have read not only the info on here but have obtained Doug's info on the how to sting the polygraph. I have read both , copied both and distributed them throughout the polygraph community. We have tried all the countermeasures being taught in both books and most of these manufactured reactions were easily discovered.
For all the people out there who think they can take a 10 minute class on how to beat the test. Good luck. For all the PHD's who have studied the polygraph for the last 20 years , proclaim themselves as experts and who think they can beat the test . Good luck to you to.
You are not the ones being tested.

  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box George W. Maschke
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #21 - Nov 12th, 2002 at 9:25am
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Polylawman,

The available peer-reviewed research on countermeasures such as those described in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector suggests that even experienced polygraphers are unable to detect these countermeasures at better than chance levels of accuracy. And the American Polygraph Association quarterly, Polygraph, has yet to publish even one article setting forth a methodology for the detection of such countermeaures.

If you would have us believe that you and your colleagues in the polygraph community can detect polygraph countermeasures, then why not accept Dr. Richardson's polygraph countermeasure challenge?
  

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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box beech trees
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #22 - Nov 12th, 2002 at 4:27pm
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Quote:
I have read not only the info on here but have obtained Doug's info on the how to sting the polygraph. I have read both , copied both and distributed them throughout the polygraph community. We have tried all the countermeasures being taught in both books and most of these manufactured reactions were easily discovered.


Coming from someone who lies as a major part of his profession, I have my doubts about the veracity of that boast. Add to that the fact that I personally can attest that they do in fact work (my polygraph interrogator didn't have the faintest clue), and we have yet another flat out lie from the propolygraph community. Take the challenge, polylawman, or quit your hollow boasting. No one's buying your bunk here.

Quote:
For all the people out there who think they can take a 10 minute class on how to beat the test. Good luck. For all the PHD's who have studied the polygraph for the last 20 years , proclaim themselves as experts and who think they can beat the test . Good luck to you to.
You are not the ones being tested.


Bring it on, tough guy.

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.- H. L. Mencken
« Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2002 at 5:39pm by beech trees »  

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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #23 - Nov 13th, 2002 at 7:48am
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Then why are you so bitter. What and who are you blaming for not getting that job either.  Tough Guy
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Danv
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #24 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 10:22am
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Hey hero's, If you know your job is secure why do you waste your time trying to debate the people on this site?  Why would you spend so much of your time on this site responding to all the dumb ideas the rest of us have?  Im not bothered by someone I know is wrong, Im bothered only by those I know are right.   Do you think the other posts here are right?  Are you wasting your time here because of that? Must suck having to do a job that only comes with a certificate of completion. Dan
  
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #25 - Nov 19th, 2002 at 10:30am
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By the way, does anyone have a list of the polygraphers in minnesota?  Im interested in creating a Registry of Polygraphers on our servers so that people can place complaints aginst these people and we can atleast try to figure out which polygraphers actually care about their jobs and which are just cranks trying to find out what sexual positions you like.  BTW, does a polygrapher have to take a psy test to see if they are sex offender types or can a freak just take the class and get to ask people all kinds of "Exciting" questions?  Sorry polylawman and mr. psy, but I dont have your names for the registry yet, please respond with them.  You have nothing to hide unless you choose not to respond.
dan
  
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #26 - Dec 19th, 2002 at 8:22am
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danv,

I have found a list of polygraphers in Minnesota and will post in a new message thread.
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box shitty rogers
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #27 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 6:00am
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YOUR SON IS AN IDIOT!!!!!....THE MORE A GIRL THROWS HERSELF AT YOU THE MORE YOUR SON SHOULD HAVE STAYED AWAY.....YOU DID A BAD JOB RAISING THIS KID AND DID HIM A GREAT INJUSTICE FOR NOT PREPARING HIM FOR THE IDIOTS THAT SURROUND US ON THIS PLANET...YOU BEING ONE OF THEM....I CAN'T FORCE MYSELF TO FEEL BAD FOR YOU OR YOUR SON....WHEN IN DOUBT...KEEP YOUR PANTS ON....OR BE PREPARED FOR THE ENSUING TROUBLE THAT COMES WITH WHAT YOU DO....OBVIOUSLY IF THIS LITTLE GIRL TRICKED YOUR SON,SHE IS THE SMARTER OF THE TWO,AND ALSO HER MOM IS JUST AS MUCH A FAILURE AT PARENTING AS YOU ARE.....
  
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Paste Member Name in Quick Reply Box Fair Chance
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #28 - Dec 31st, 2002 at 3:18pm
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Dear "shitty rogers,"

The fact that the people in this thread have some severe emotional and criminal problems does not detract from their argument that the validity of the polygraph is extremely questionable as used in their lives.  Criminals should be prosecuted and convicted according to reasonable evidence provided to a judge or jury.  The polygraph should not be the "sole" source of any criminal or private decision on innocence or guilt as it is in these examples.

Regards.
  
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Re: Texas sex offender & mandatory polygraph
Reply #29 - Jan 7th, 2003 at 7:02am
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Can a person take a lawyer with them to the polygraph test?
  
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