new to Texas SOTP Polys questions

[fupolys]

Hello everyone, long story short I was put on misdemeanor probation, A condition was get a SO eval, but didnt have to register as a SO. Ofcourse the therapist and Polygrapher want to get paid so Im in the SOTP on a fn misdeminor! Dont worry I am talking to a lawyer to try to get off of it. Have taken two polys One with my lawyer. (inconclusive) One in probation i guess instant offense?(false positive) Same polygraph Its a small town, and he travels here. Of course him and the therapist are tight.

Went to some groups and now they want me to take another one, instant offense I guess.

[fuploys]

 I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky? Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control? I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks,

[George W. Maschke]

I have read The Lie, and the Sting, Should one try the anal sphincter contraction? if you are setting on a pad?. Its a bad idea right? risky?

As you'll note in The Lie Behind the Lie Detector, we advise against employing the anal sphincter contraction as a countermeasure.

Is it the consensus that Mental imagery and tounge biting are the best? and of course  breathing control?

Yes.

I guess Im asking what had been more successful for people, mental imagary or biting? And is it bad to do both on control questions? Is it over kill? Thanks, 

There is no data available on which to base an answer to your question. Combining mental imagery and tongue biting might be overkill, but then again, it might not. In any event, if I were to employ polygraph countermeasures, I would choose mental imagery (such as solving a math problem) and produce breathing reactions to the control questions (slower or more shallow breathing, not deeper), as described in Chapter 4 of The Lie Behind the Lie Detector.

[fupolys]

Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct?

And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.

I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?

[Ex Member]

There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.

Sounds embellished to me. My personal take on TLBTLD is to educate and learn to protect oneself against a potential false positive. Like all useful information, it can be also be used in more sinister ways. I encourage you to seize this opportunity to be positive about the treatment and learn to make better choices diverse from those which resulted in your current pickle.

An argument can be made against the efficacy of using the polygraph as part of the sex offender containment programs. But, habit has shown, that they do not want to give up the "24 hour tail" despite the uncertain reliability of it.

[George W. Maschke]

Thanks for the information George, I will definitely review Chap 3 and 4 and practice. Since, I took tests with the same polygrapher, i think I got a feel what the control questions are. DLCT. He told me to lie on s question, (Did you ever tell a lie ever in your life?) directed lie
But he did ask,( Regarding the issue at hand today, do you intend to tell me the truth?) Thats most likely sacrifice relevant correct?

Correct.

And is it judt me ?, Doesnt  giving too many polys to a person, like long timers probationers/parolees in the SOTP a bad idea. Seems like the more you take the less intimidated, desensitized and better prepared, ie fine tuning CM's one would become, There was a guy in my group that dais he has taken 90!!!.

No, it's not just you. Professor of psychology Chris French raised similar concerns in a 2012 commentary published in The Guardian. Apart from probationers/parolees becoming less intimidated by the polygraph and learning countermeasures, there is the additional concern that polygraphy has no scientific basis to begin with. Retired FBI scientist and polygraph expert Dr. Drew Richardson has also weighed in against polygraph screening of sex offenders, as have I.

See also Professor Jeffrey W. Rosky's article, The (F)utility of Post-
Conviction Polygraph Testing (PDF) and his address at a 2012 skeptics' conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BybrnNyAkHg

I think its a bad idea for SOTP therapists to use these as a gauge of treatment progress. Thoughts?

I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose.

[fupolys]

Thanks for the links/references George, I agree with you.

[Ex Member]

I think it is malpractice for any treatment provider to rely on polygraph chart readings for any purpose. 

You got off easy on this one George, quickfix and others must be on vacation. 

[Joe McCarthy]

If you have a lawyer, have your lawyer subpoena the charts and score sheets.  It takes just a few minutes to print charts and about a bucks worth of paper, so it is not a big bother to print them, though I suspect you will get one hell of a fight to get those charts.

I'm also going to point out, that you may want to check your probation conditions in regard to internet access; just want to throw that out there.  Some counties are militant about this condition and would certainly get you an MTR in a heartbeat.

I have to admit though, I am very curious as to what company this examiner is employed.

[fupolys]

I dont have any condition's against using the internet, I havent been scheduled for a new Poly yet, Yes now that Im a abit more educated on Polys now, I would like to see that charts, seems like any polygrapher could say, looks like you failed this questions, let me add a bunch of numbers together and show you. woah it adds up to 9's!
Lets see what the software says now, whoops, and show you the screen, that says deceptive, I mean wouldn't that stuff be easy to bluff? He also only ran 2 charts he could use, Dont they need to run three charts?
Finally and this is the kicker, He was my polygrapher when I used my defense lawyer, when I got a inconclusive.
The same polygrapher told the therapist, I had taken the before!
I think he  possibly broke his attorney client privilege. I confronted the Therapist about that. She said I signed some releases, I dont think, I remember one waiving attorney client privilege. Im waiting to hear back from my lawyer, I definitely want another polygrapher next time, if needed. If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested. Thanks

[George W. Maschke]

If you PM me ill give you the polygraphers name to anyone interested.

Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).

[fupolys]

Other users of the message board can PM you only if you create an account on this message board (or provide an alternative means of communication).

Ok Gentleman, I am now registered, if one wants to PM me they can. George you have any thoughts about my experience I mentioned about the two charts, bluff, and attorney client privilege possible breech? Thanks

[fupolys]

I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two? Do they use bluff tactics? and my lawyer is looking into the possibility of the polygrapher breaking attorney client privilege, maybe not coincidentally, they have been so nice to me after i confronted the therapist about that, and haven't as of yet been scheduled for a poly?

Also Irish, check for a PM from me. Thanks, Guys

[George W. Maschke]

I was wondering if any one had any input to my post last week? Do polygraphers usually run three charts to form their opinions? Its it acceptable to run just two?

According to pp. 31-33 of the Texas Joint Polygraph Committee on Offender Testing's Recommended Guidelines for Clinical Polygraph Examinations of Sex Offenders, at minimum three chart collections should be conducted (two "primary" series and one "mixed" series, in which comparison questions are rotated).

Do they use bluff tactics?

Yes.

[fupolys]

George, Thanks for the link to the handbook, that was a very good reference.