Daily Beast Article on Polygraphy

[Wandersmann]

To suggest we enjoy "ruining" someone's career is utter nonsense

Lots of Ad Hominem attacks to my post, but no real comprehension or substantive refuting of anything I said.  Whether you enjoy "ruining" a person's career or not is irrelevant.  I might be mistaken, but haven't you joked about ruining people in the past on this forum Quickfix ?   I had the impression you enjoyed it.  Whether you enjoy it or not, I'm glad you tacitly admitted you are, in fact, ruining people.  Thank you.  I rest my case.   

Pailryder, regarding your Ad Hominem response,  I'm glad you think Orwellian torture is funny.   Do you think that someone losing their livelihood and having a nervous breakdown due to the polygraph is not Orwellian torture ?  Do you know what the term Orwellian torture means ?   I'll tell you where I came up with the Dachau statement.  It just popped into my head when you said polygraph examiners were "good" people.  I recall reading a speech that Heinrich Himmler once gave when he said, and I paraphrase after translation , something to the effect of, "it is impressive that we can do such terrible things and still remain such good people." 

I don't need to join my friend on the delivery truck and my 8 times on the polygraph over a 20 year period (obviously I must have passed) are behind me.  I have several friends, however, who are going through hell and I feel for them.  My motivation for continuing an interest in this topic involves following my oath of office and duty to my country.  I am also proud of my service and my agency and believe that the current polygraph abuse is a stain on the honor of our sacred law enforcement and military institutions.  I don't blame polygraph examiners as much as I blame our poor leadership for allowing the polygraph to be a panacea of truth.  I know a Vietnam Silver Star recipient who became a polygraph examiner and then quit when he realized that he was hurting innocent people.  He had honor.  He would have continued as a polygraph examiner if he was allowed to just use it as a tool. 

Lastly, to those of you in the polygraph community who are laughing at me, as Quickfix suggests, I would be happy to share notes about the difference between a complicated month/year long investigation conducted in accordance with due process and culminating in a trial versus a several hour interview followed by an "interpretation" of a biological reading with final innocence or guilt determined by a kangaroo court staffed by members of the same "private club". 

[Wandersmann]

Over paid screw ups, thugs, frauds, mother stabbing whores and cheats.  You are not the first to name call and I normally I would not be baited into a reply to such posts.  But the comparison to a Nazi death camp?

Pailryder, I will apologize for my over-animated description of polygraphers.  I know several polygraphers who easily fit the  description I gave.  In fact calling them screw ups, thugs, frauds, mother stabbing whores and cheats would be sugar-coating it, but I don't mean to paint everyone with the same brush.  I reacted because you were painting polygraphers with the same brush in a different color and what you described is not even close to what I experienced.

[Joe McCarthy]

Did December go and run away?  Wow, they are resorting to the ole hit and run tactic.  A tactic embraced by frauds, shysters, drunks, and carnies.

Typical of Holden and his crew, send in the clowns and then run when the going gets tough.  It's their go to.

[Dan Mangan]

I recall reading a speech that Heinrich Himmler once gave when he said, and I paraphrase after translation , something to the effect of, "it is impressive that we can do such terrible things and still remain such good people."

Wandersmann, in my personal opinion, this is a most profound observation that strikes at the dark underbelly of the polygraph indu$try.

But for many stalwart polygraph apologists, the end justifies the means.

It's no wonder that my proposed bill of rights for polygraph test-takers has been roundly condemned by indu$try beneficiaries.

At least the American Polygraph Association has a growing number of progressive realists within its rank-and-file membership who do not fear the concept of legitimate informed consent. Sadly, none of the APA's elected officers -- not a single one, as far as I know -- supports a bill of rights for test subjects.

If I'm wrong about that I'm sure someone will chime in very soon to correct me, given that this forum is by far the one most monitored by polygraph professionals.

[cue crickets]

[Joe McCarthy]

It's one thing to claim to be a good person, it's another thing to BE a good person. 

[Joe McCarthy]

hey Rick

Are you having fun yet?

8-)

Loses some effect when you're not yelling it in person right?

[Wandersmann]

Are you having fun yet?

Joe -

         Let's lighten it up a bit.  Do you prefer Smithwicks or Guiness ? 

[Joe McCarthy]

sorry man, it's just that I am the kinda person that when I fight, either I am all in or I am not.  I am so sick of clowns like December, and the only way to silence them is to beat them into the ground with their own shit.

You're right though, need to rest between rounds.

Frankly, I wish I didn't have to do this at all.  Things were so quiet between 2009 and last year. 

Ya know, if a few of them would do what you just did and talk to me, a lot of this fight would not be necessary 

I firmly believe a lot of this can be worked out over a few beers and honest conversation.  It almost worked once in October of last year.  A couple people talked and the war was almost over forever. 

Amazing what can happen when ALL sides sit down and be reasonable. 

Of course they will deny it and I hope they do.  I love catching them in lies

[Ex Member]

Joe, why don't you just get this gal that is giving you hard time and give her some of that old Irish charm? Get her into the polygraph suite, turn on the activity sensors and do her to a tender turn..

[Dan Mangan]

Ark, if I may interject...

I dare say that none -- and I repeat, NONE -- of Joe McCarthy's TAPE detractors would ever submit to the dreaded liebox -- the very same instrument they cling to so adamantly as being so highly accurate.

Why the resistance?

That's a good question.

Either the liebox is bogus, or Joe's detractors are....well, you get the drift.

[Joe McCarthy]

Ark, if I may interject...

I dare say that none -- and I repeat, NONE -- of Joe McCarthy's TAPE detractors would ever submit to the dreaded liebox -- the very same instrument they cling to so adamantly as being so highly accurate.

Why the resistance?

That's a good question.

Either the liebox is bogus, or Joe's detractors are....well, you get the drift.

Personally, I think it is both possibilities.

[Joe McCarthy]

All I can say ARK, before charm can work, we have to assume the people I am using the charm on is a lady.  If it is one of the two people I suspect, while they may be female, a lady they are not. 

[Wandersmann]

sorry man, it's just that I am the kinda person that when I fight, either I am all in or I am not.

Joe -  I understand completely.  But back to the question -  Smithwicks or Guinness.  I'd like an Irishman's opinion. 

[Joe McCarthy]

18 year old Jameson and Guinness 

Anything less is uncivilized

[Wandersmann]

18 year old Jameson and Guinness 

Thank you -  Sounds good to me.  I normally like single malt, but a good 18-year old blend distilled in cork sounds good.  I've already got the Guinness, next time I'm at the liquor store I'll get the Jameson. 

                 Shláinte