I PASSED THE POLY!!!!

[Duc748]

You have conceded that you do not know whether polygraphy is reliable or not. You're clearly ignorant in this regard, and yet you seem to have little interest in educating yourself. Again, I suggest that you do so before passing moral judgment on others for working to expose and end polygraph waste, fraud, and abuse.

George, true I am ignorant of polygraphy in its entirety. I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. What I HAVE BEEN studying are the posts on this site, and with great interest. It is here that I am basing a lot of my information. THE PEOPLE that post to this board are the ones giving me information with which I am basing my views. I don't pass judgement on those who wish to end polygraphy because they feel it's not fair or scientific, for people have the right to change the system. What I am passing judgement on are the methods being employed.
You don't have to be an expert in polygraphy to see the negative impact this site can have. You can read about it through criminals posts.

[George W. Maschke]

Timofei,

You wrote, among other things:

The success of the polygraph as an interrogation instrument depends inherently on the interrogation subject not being aware of the techniques involved. If this information is revealed, the polygraph is not effective.

This is a key point that you've raised, and one that the polygraph community (and the governmental agencies they serve) have long avoided confronting. For example, the president of the American Polygraph Association has declined to state how APA members should should proceed if a subject were to reveal that he/she has read The Lie Behind the Lie Detector and understands the psychological manipulations involved in both the "stim test" and the "control" questions.

With information about polygraphy now readily available to anyone who can read English and has Internet access, it's high time that the polygraph community mustered the courage to candidly address the question of how to deal with informed subjects.

[beech trees]

Did I or did I not say, "If you condone...."

My father had a response for statements like this one. "You're too clever by half."

Weaseling out of harsh, blatant innuendo shows you to be rather gutless as well. My impression of the Federal Bureau of Investigation is rapidly declining commensurate with your ever-increasing number of posts.

[George W. Maschke]

George, true I am ignorant of polygraphy in its entirety. I've said this in the past and I'll say it again. What I HAVE BEEN studying are the posts on this site, and with great interest. It is here that I am basing a lot of my information. THE PEOPLE that post to this board are the ones giving me information with which I am basing my views. I don't pass judgement on those who wish to end polygraphy because they feel it's not fair or scientific, for people have the right to change the system. What I am passing judgement on are the methods being employed.
You don't have to be an expert in polygraphy to see the negative impact this site can have. You can read about it through criminals posts.

Earlier today, you wrote, "So George, knowing that you're helping rapists pass the polygraph, how do you feel about it?" and you implied that beech trees condones "condone rape, murder, incest, drug use." Seems to me you're passing moral judgment on both persons and methods.

You also asked earlier, "If your goal is simply to rid the world of polygraphs, isn't there another way to do it?" What other way do you have in mind?

[Duc748]

Weaseling out of harsh, blatant innuendo shows you to be rather gutless as well.

And so now we've reached the, "My dad can beat you dad up" phase. Kind of what I expected from you. Of course, should I have expected differently from a self-admitted liar? You want to call it innuendo or gutless, so be it. Really means very little to me, coming from you. Cheers.

[Duc748]

Earlier today, you wrote, "So George, knowing that you're helping rapists pass the polygraph, how do you feel about it?" and you implied that beech trees condones "condone rape, murder, incest, drug use." Seems to me you're passing moral judgment on both persons and methods.

George, you ARE helping rapists pass the polygraph. That's not a moral judgement, it's a fact.

You also asked earlier, "If your goal is simply to rid the world of polygraphs, isn't there another way to do it?" What other way do you have in mind?

Tell you the truth George, I don't know off the top of my head. But, there must be another way. Lobbying congress, getting your message of polygraphs not being valid through other media outlets. Getting your governor to hear what you have to say and showing the evidence to support your case. Anything other than telling convicts this is how you beat the polygraph, so that they may continue on their merry way of destroying other people's lives.
You say the polygraph ruins innocent people's lives. I'll argue that by helping these low-lifes, you're helping them to ruin innocent people's lives. So who sits on the high moral ground here?

[beech trees]

And so now we've reached the, "My dad can beat you dad up" phase. Kind of what I expected from you. Of course, should I have expected differently from a self-admitted liar? You want to call it innuendo or gutless, so be it. Really means very little to me, coming from you. Cheers.

What an odd, warped and totally pathetic misrepresentation of my previous post. How very typical of you, however.

And, just to clarify the facts for the benefit of other readers, never once have I asserted I lied on my polygraph exam.

Mr. Duc, you wield the epithet 'liar' on this board with such viscious ferocity and frequency I can only presume you must think yourself the second coming of Jesus Christ himself, and that you have never once in your entire life lied to anyone, including your recent polygraph interrogator. How pleasant it must be to sit so high above the rest of humanity, doling out your gratuitous assertions and lily-livered attempts at ad hominem attacks, snugly cozy in the comforting fact that you alone are without sin. You're a popinjay, Mr. Duc, nothing more.

Rarely have I been so thoroughly entertained by another's hubris. Please don't stop posting,

BT

[therock]

Duc, in all due respect, I don't think Mr Maschke's purpose of this website was to promote convicted sex offenders' passing these polygraphs.  Yes Duc, it does outrage me myself that certain types of people who have done horrible crimes are using these methods.  One thing is though, you can't blame Mr Maschke.  His goal was to prove the deception of the polygraph itself, and that he has done.  Believe me I know where you're coming from internally, with certain criminals employing these methods, but in all due respect these people were going to find this method whether in this website, or somewhere else.  This website is not the only place to learn about the polygraph, and it's failures.  One other thing, is that some people do use countermeasures while telling the truth.  It's just their insurance policy of not coming out a false positive, which you can see many people who have worked long, and hard towards achieving certain positions, and/or rank are labeled as crooks, spies, drug addicts, and so on.  Duc I do know you're a person of high integrity and I can see that you will make a very good Federal Agent, and not to mention you have served our country as well for a long period of time.  You have bigger and better things ahead of you.  One thing though, you must be a bit more open-minded towards certain issues, I mean being an Law Enforcement Agent means you must have a high level of tolerance, and even though you may disagree with certain viewpoints, you will have to offer the same and equal level of public service to the inhabitants of this country.  I just thought I had to post, because in all due respect, I know you're a man of honor, and I do have the outmost respect for people like you, but also I don't think Mr Maschke should be held liable for certain criminals looking for ways to beat the system.  From a personal standpoint George is anything but a promoter of deviance, personally he's helped me out greatly in my personal endeavors which you probably know of.  I'm not the best judge of character, but I do know when I see people encompassing honorable characters such as yourself and Mr Maschke and many other members of this site, while there will be those dirty deviant individuals on this site, I am a firm believer in the justice system, and I truly believe somehow, somewhere, these people who are commiting such shameful acts will get theirs in the end.  Take care, and I truly hope I didn't upset many of the honorable and respected members of this site.

[xpmachina]

Dear all,

Sorry to arouse a chaos here. Though it's not polite so use four-letter word here, but still have to say

FUCK YOU DUC!

If you had ever read my posts before you would have not said "This guy xpmanchina"

I was in the stage of investigation for a criminal case, in which I am 100% totally innocent. The policemen tried to set me up, and I was asking for help in this website. I am not in a rape case, drug dealing, robbering nor anything very serious. I am a decent person, and have no record.

Just because the cops tried to set me up, that was why I said yes when the DA asked me to submit a poly test. But I am just an normal person, I have never been experienced in any charge before, then I found this site, people especially Geroge helped me a lot!!

Just like George said, and from my own experience.

POLYGRAPH TEST HAS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE ITS VALIDITY.

You don't have to be trained like spy or FBI/CIA agents. I can be sure that anyone being trained himself for 2 hours shall surely pass the test.

We don't come to this website to be a coward, we come here to protect ourselves from being falsely accused. At least I came here for that reason.

Thank you George always. Polygraph test is a lie, I have already proved it by myself no matter how people think. It is certainly a lie.

[steve]

100% innocent my ass! Everyone says they are being set up by the cops!

[George W. Maschke]

George, you ARE helping rapists pass the polygraph. That's not a moral judgement, it's a fact.

Tell you the truth George, I don't know off the top of my head. But, there must be another way. Lobbying congress, getting your message of polygraphs not being valid through other media outlets. Getting your governor to hear what you have to say and showing the evidence to support your case. Anything other than telling convicts this is how you beat the polygraph, so that they may continue on their merry way of destroying other people's lives.
You say the polygraph ruins innocent people's lives. I'll argue that by helping these low-lifes, you're helping them to ruin innocent people's lives. So who sits on the high moral ground here?

Duc748,

We are indeed lobbying Congress and are happy to speak with anyone in the media who will listen. But these measures won't help to protect the innocent people who are being harmed by polygraphy, and we can't provided them with the information they need without also making it available to everyone.

The information about polygraph countermeasures provided here will help criminals "continue on their merry way of destroying other people's lives" only to the extent that government places any reliance  on this pseudoscientific fraud. Is it responsible for government to rely on polygraphy, in view of the fact that it has no scientific basis and is easily defeated through the use of simple countermeasures (information regarding which is freely available to all who seek it)?

[G Scalabr]

Duc 748,

The information we provide is also likely being used by sexual assault victims in the numerous jurisdictions where the alleged victim of a sex offense must "pass" a polygraph "test" before the police deem the allegation credible and begin a serious investigation.

There is a great deal of legitimate information in our society that is also exploited by criminals. The fact that something can be used by criminals is hardly a reason for suppressing it.

Take, for example, rights and protections present in our justice system. These are frequently taken advantage of by guilty individuals. Under your logic, perhaps we should eliminate the right to remain silent. After all, criminals who confess are much easier to convict. While were at it, let's toss the Miranda decision. Many criminals may be ignorant of their rights--let's keep them that way, right? I could go on ad nauseam.

The information we provide on this website has an indisputable legitimate purpose--to help those forced to submit to polygraph "tests" protect themselves against false allegations.  

Instead of blaming those who provide support for victims of polygraph "tests," you should be directing your energy toward those in the polygraph profession who routinely mislead the press and elected officials about the infallibility of polygraph "tests." The fact is that these "tests" are easily beaten by the guilty.  They also tend to falsely accuse many innocent people. If criminals are going unpunished because they are beating polygraph "tests," the blame rests with anyone foolish to rely on these "tests."

Lastly, your comparison of polygraphy to modern medicine is ludicrous. The medical diagnostic process is supported (and shaped by) the best universities in our nation. The faculty at these institutions represents the best and brightest in our society. Polygraphy, on the other hand, receives nearly no respect from top tier academics. I'll leave it up to you to flesh out the argument that the level of intelligence among the faculty at polygraph schools compares favorably to the level of intelligence of those who teach medical doctors their diagnostic skills.

[Propoly]

Answer something for me, xpmachina? If you were confident that you didn't do anything, then why use counter measures? Were you afraid that you couldn't pass the polygraph examination by just telling the truth. Well there is one good thing about your admission(using counter measures that is), you knew that the polygraph instrument would detect your lies  

[beech trees]

Well there is one good thing about your admission(using counter measures that is), you knew that the polygraph instrument would detect your lies

But not, apparently, his use of countermeasures.

[G Scalabr]

Propoly:  If you were confident that you didn't do anything, then why use counter measures?

Perhaps xpmachina used countermeasures for the reason that he stated--that [the]POLYGRAPH TEST HAS NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TO PROVE ITS VALIDITY.

Well there is one good thing about your admission(using counter measures that is), you knew that the polygraph instrument would detect your lies

To deduce that those who employ countermeasures believe that the polygraph instrument is an accurate lie detector is a non sequitur. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that these individuals do not wish to chance their futures on the outcome of a "test" shown to be no more accurate than chance.