I got BUSTED trying to use CMs!!!

[stefano]

You are using the same tactic you accuse polygraph examiners of using.If the CM did not work, you used them incorrectly.(If you passed while using CM the examiner was not properly trained.)Why not just admit CM's are detectable unless you have had EXTENSIVE training in their usage.

Step up to the countermeasure challenge; that should put the matter to rest.

[stefano]

If one defines a properly executed cm as one that is not detected, you are of course correct.Just like a properly excuted bluff in poker is defined as a bluff that is successful.This post points out the risk of detection for less than perfect execution. 

I concur that if somebody is haphazard in the execution of a countermeasure, it could very well show up on the chart as an anomaly detectable by the examiner; practice and refinement are paramount.

[busted]

busted,

Which agency polygraphed you? What questions were you asked? On which ones did you hold your breath?

I'd rather not say which agency polygraphed me.  I was asked standard counterintelligence and lifestyle questions, the same ones that I've seen posted on this forum and other forums (contact with foreign agencies, plots to overthrow the U.S., crime, drugs, porn habits, etc.).  I held my breath on the control questions just like TLBTLD tells me too. 

I cannot comment on all uses of mental CM's, I am sure they have been used successfully by some.  Experiments I have conducted (non scientific) with mental CM's demonstrated to me that they are difficult to detect and impossible to prove.   

I totally agree with this statement.  Mental CMs are a polygraphee's best bet.

I'm sure the polygraphers have been read TLBTLD and this site and practice the CMs on each other so they know what it looks like when a person uses CMs.

I guess on the bright side I never admitted to using CMs to the polygraphers, I denied it all the way through.  But I knew in my mind that they caught me and I was just digging myself in deeper.

[Bill_Brown]

Step up to the countermeasure challenge; that should put the matter to rest.

practice and refinement are paramount.

You are correct.  The challenge made would be someone that had PRACTICE AND REFINEMENT.  That would be a no win contest.  The average person reading this site does not have practice and refinement in use of CM's.   

[George W. Maschke]

busted,

Which agency polygraphed you? What questions were you asked? On which ones did you hold your breath?

I'd rather not say which agency polygraphed me.  I was asked standard counterintelligence and lifestyle questions, the same ones that I've seen posted on this forum and other forums (contact with foreign agencies, plots to overthrow the U.S., crime, drugs, porn habits, etc.).  I held my breath on the control questions just like TLBTLD tells me too.

Could you provide specific examples of the control questions you were asked?

[busted]

I don't remember the EXACT questions, but they were similar to what was mentioned in TLBTLD.  What does it matter?  I agree with a previous post that without proper training and practice, using CMs is dangerous.  This site has been up for years and is now one of the top Google hits for the word "polygraph", so I bet most people who have to take a polygraph come to this site for help, and the polygraphers visit too.  For a person, like me, to think that they can just waltz into a polygraph and use the CMs from this site without any practice (and just sitting at home practicing on my own doesn't count, we need to actually practice on a polygraph machine) is foolish.  The polygraphers know the game and they have seen people like me before trying to use CMs as described all over this site and the internet.  I'm sure a few people can use then for the first time and succeed but for the rest of us you are playing with fire.  CMs have been around for years, nothing new, and I got caught.  Maybe mental CMs will work, but breating and tongue biting and other stuff from TLBTLD is a no go.  Especially if you are nervous going into your poly and are doing this for the first time, you will be caught red handed as I was.  Unless you are adequately prepared and have been trained on CMs, don't think that you are using "secret CMs" that the polygraph vets have never seen before.

[figs]

I'm confusd by recent postings. Lucks like the National Center for Credibility Assessment website says federal polygraphers can't detect respiratory countermeasures:  http://www.daca.mil/br_RES_ResearchProjs.htm.

Listing Honts, C. R., & Crawford, M. (2010, March). Polygraph countermeasures cannot be detected from respiratory signatures: Government policy puts the innocent at risk. Paper presented at the 2010 meeting of the American Psychology Law Society, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

Does this mean resent NCCA research shows respiratory countermeasures are undetectable by federal polygraphers?

Doesn't say anything about "PRACTICE and REFINEMENT"  in countermeasures there either... 

[busted]

If not "detected", they can be "strongly suspected".  Either way you will get the boot.  You can argue that "strongly suspected" is nothing more than a wild ass guess, but that wild guess is always in favor of the polygrapher.  So if the polygrapher even thinks you are using CMs, you are done.  I think that I was "strongly suspected" because after my interrogation and being accused of altering my breathing, I was asked if I would be willing to come in for another polygraph, to which I said "yes".  Well, I was never invited back in for another poly, I was later rejected instead.  You can roll the dice if you want to...

[stefano]

I don't remember the EXACT questions, but they were similar to what was mentioned in TLBTLD.What does it matter?

Sorry, I go back to my original assertion that your posting is not genuine.

[stefano]

Doesn't say anything about "PRACTICE and REFINEMENT"in countermeasures there either

Those were my words. I had to admit to Bill Brown and Pailryder that countermeasures require practice and refinement. I do believe this to be true. Haphazard countermeasures should not be attempted.

[Bill_Brown]

Sorry, I go back to my original assertion that your posting is not genuine.

I believe I concur with Stefano, the posting sounds like an examiner or a person supporting polygraph.  Possibly Busted will elaborate and dispel that cloud.   

[figs]

Interesting theory. But National Center for Credibility Assessment research says nothing about quality of CMs.

Instead, federal polygraphers research proves CMs from TLBTLD can't be detected.  

Pple reading this forum can either believe that research, or they can believe that their CMs won't be good enough. "Oh, I'm so skeered my CMs won't be QUALITY. Will I suddenly forget how to breathe? Breathing is so hard. Maybe I'll just trust the NICE MAN who'se strapping chains bands around my chest now." 

[Bill_Brown]

figs,

I have been unable to read the research, I would appreciate a link to the research.  It would make for interesting reading and debate.

Regards

[stefano]

But National Center for Credibility Assessment research says nothing about quality of CMs.

Figs, "haphazard" is not a measure of quality. It is a lacking of plan, order or direction.

[stefano]

Polygraph examiners or advocates who attempt to be impostors on this website are doing their cause a disservice. You are supposed to be professionals seeking the truth, yet you engage in this immature deception. Oh, how I love the irony.