Seattle Polygraph Experiences for Border Patrol

[firedup]

I'd like to hear stories from anyone who has taken a polygraph exam in Seattle, with Mr. Mungle, for the position of Border Patrol Agent. 

I met with Mungle last month - my last step (+ PF2) in the long, tiring process of trying to become a BP Agent.  Mungle will flash his I.D., his badge, and even his arrogance.  He will ensure you know he has been doing this job over 20 years.  He will tell you that he is very direct, and that he doesn't play games.  He will ask why you're so jumpy.  You try sitting in this chair Mungle, see how long your back can take it before you become jumpy.  As you can see, there wasn't really anything about this guy that impressed me.  I was ready to leave after listening to him for about 5 minutes.  Having nothing to hide, and giving completely honest answers to every question asked, I was advised that I was not telling him something regarding my SF-86, basically that I had ommitted information.  In addition to this, I was advised that I was not being completely honest regarding drug use.  Mungle wanted answers...I had none for him.  I was basically being called a liar to my face, when in actuality, I was being completely honest.  Mungle said if I told him what I was hiding, everything would be fine, and I could get through the process.  Again, I had no answers for him...I was completely truthful on my background paperwork, did not omit anything as he stated, and did not lie regarding my drug use.  Mungle ended the exam, and advised me that he couldn't help me any further if I wasn't going to give him the information he wanted to hear.  I was shocked, angry, and devastated that this guy was going to sit here and call me a liar to my face when I did nothing but tell the truth.  I left totally dejected, bewildered, knowing that I had gotten this far in the process, just to have it ended for what reasons I still have no idea. 

I have read messages regarding applicants who lied and passed, as well as those who were truthful and failed.  Unfortunately, I fell into the latter category.  It's unfortunate that my future fell into the hands of Mungle, and a cracker jack contraption that portrayed me as a liar.  Thanks for absolutely nothing ahole. 

[George W. Maschke]

Would that be retired Army warrant officer and former CIA and DIA polygrapher Harry Mungle?

WHAT PROFESSION DID YOU FOLLOW AFTER THE SERVICE AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW? IF CURRENTLY SERVING, WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT JOB?

After retiring from the Army in 1987, I went to work for DODIG Defense Criminal Investigative Service as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner.

In July 2001, I went to work for the Central Intelligence Agency as a Security Officer/Polygraph Examiner and ended up in Iraq in 2003. Then in 2004 I went to work for the Defense Intelligence Agency, as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner and found myself in Afghanistan and Iraq on multiple tours. In July 2008 I went to work for the US Customs and Border Protection, Office of Internal Affairs, Seattle Field Office, as a Special Agent/Polygraph Examiner and I will retire here as soon as I stop having fun. From the jungles of Vietnam, to the sands of Iraq, to the mountains of Afghanistan, to the rain forests of Madagascar I have been places and done things I thought I would never do and all because of my chosen career in the Army.

I hope that Mr. Mungle is not having fun falsely accusing truthful applicants of deception, and that he might choose to devote his time to better, more honest pursuits.

[Gil]

"Mungle ended the exam, and advised me that he couldn't help me any further if I wasn't going to give him the information he wanted to hear."

Sounds exactly like my examiner when I took the FBI poly. The above tactic is common among examiners. These folks DO NOT have your best interests at heart nor is their intention to "help" you.

[firedup]

I just received my official letter from Customs and Border Protection, rescinding my tentative job offer, due to being found unsuitable for a position as a Border Patrol Agent, based upon the results of my polygraph examination.

The letter also states that I have no appeal rights.  Last time I checked, I was an American citizen, living in the United States of America.

How can a person not have appeal rights?  I do not understand, and have lost much faith and respect for our government and its processes.

[stefano]

How can a person not have appeal rights?I do not understand

Does anyone know if Firedup's polygraph charts can be obtained through the Freedom of Information Act?

[firedup]

Stefano,

Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act?

[stefano]

Stefano,

Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act? 

I put the question out there, but the silence is deafening. Maybe this is one road they don't want anyone to go down.

[Bill_Brown]

Stefano,

It is my opinion and my opinion only that the polygraph report is subject to FOI, I have been told the PDD Charts are different, however I do make the charts available to an independent examiner if requested for review.  There are times in court proceedings where charts are displayed and have to be produced in discovery.  I have never had a FOI request for charts.  I suggest you ask the APA that question and see what their response is. 

[stefano]

Stefano,

Were you able to ascertain if I am able to obtain my results through the Freedom of Information Act? 

Firedup, why don't you try? Insist that you get the charts--why would they be immune to the law? Once obtained, I'll be happy to give them my scrutiny. I'm one person that will NOT B.S. you, rest assured.

[firedup]

Thanks Stefano.  I will request them.

[Russell41]

Same thing happened to me back in 1997/1998 except for the US Secret Service.  I too received the letter of regret.  I am glad their ploy is being exposed.  I would love to join a class action lawsuit if it were possible.

[firedup]

Stefano,

Just to follow up with you, I requested the results of my polygraph through the FOIA and received no response.  They will also not answer their phone.  I contacted Border Patrol Recruiting in Minneapolis and advised them of my situation and was told that there are no "2nd chances" with the polygraph, in addition to no appeal rights, and that any attempt to to obtain the results of my examination via Internal Affairs, FOIA, would be ignored.

I'm very frustrated to put it mildly.

[stefano]

firedup,

I am not surprised by your post. I'm certain they will not give up the charts because they don't want somebody like me critiquing them.

I'm not so versed on the FOIA, but think George had similar results. You may want to consider applying some political pressure like writing to your congressman and CC'ing the director of the office where you applied as well as the charlatan himself. They may still dig in their heels, but it will illuminate their shenanigans. Sparking the curiosity of an investigative reporter may also stir things up.

[Oneofthemany]

I had an experience with this fraud that was ALARMINGLY similar.  "Special" Agent Mungle is one of the biggest jokes I have encountered in my entire life.  He tries his hardest to intimidate you from the very start.  All I saw was a huge fatass that has no other skills and has to try and belittle others.

By the way, Mr. Mungle, I can tell you are an alcoholic.  Nice booze nose you piece of crap.  I know you read this too.  You specifically said you do.  By the way, I like how you flash your badge and claim you are a "special" agent.  You are NOT the same type of special forces special.  Think of yourself more like Special Education special you fraud.

This piece of work tried to accuse me of also lying on my SF-86. Completely false, I went through that thing with a fine tooth comb.  Then he also tried to accuse me of serious crimes.  Completely false as well.  I have never even got in so much trouble as a speeding ticket.  I was completely truthful on everything and I was called a liar.  He tries to say he can "help me" if I confess.  Confess to what?  I had not lied!

If I had any advice of future people that get contacted by Mungle, refuse it!  If anything, request someone else!  Call IA and tell them you don't want him as a examiner.  There is more than one examiner at that office, believe me.

On another note, isn't our government in debt?  How much money are we wasting paying these polygraphers?  We could be saving MILLIONS to get rid of them!

[RoamingBack]

This is my first time on this site and I have seen so many folks whose lives are being very negatively effected by what must certainly be called a "very questionable" evaluation method if not an outright failure. I will say that anyone posting should try and refrain from letting their (righteous) anger direct them towards ad hominem commentary. These polygraph administrators are contributing to the downfall of civil society and are saying we are all liars (ad hominem from their end) and I refuse to attack them in any way except what is factual. They are perverse in their actions and dishonest in their efforts to evoke honesty, disingenuous is too kind a word for them and their ilk. I think the idea of contacting our state and federal officials is a good idea, perhaps even contacting the "county of testing" board members as well. Good luck to everyone who has been so tarnished by the mendacity of this charlatan science.